Rory Wilson

[TRO]

6 hours ago, romavillan said:

I think the value in treating this lad well and furthering his development even if he wants to go elsewhere, as others have mentioned, is to be a top target destination for the country's best talent. This is one kid, if we treat him badly and hold him back out of spite then others might be a bit wary of coming. The benefits of doing our best for him regardless could be 10 kids as good as him through the door at a younger age.

Only takes 1 or 2 of them to make it to be worth it.

Spot on

[zak]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

Spot on

But this is all basically about playing youngsters in the 1st team Vs Wycombe and lower team leagues to help their development. Do you and @romavillan think we should (have) start(ed) him instead of a player who might not be as much of a prospect but is loyal to Villa?

[The_Steve]

51 minutes ago, zak said:

But this is all basically about playing youngsters in the 1st team Vs Wycombe and lower team leagues to help their development. Do you and @romavillan think we should (have) start(ed) him instead of a player who might not be as much of a prospect but is loyal to Villa?

How do you know he’s not loyal though? I’ve seen no evidence as of yet that he wants to leave. He’s thriving in our developmental system - you don’t therefore need to play them in cup games. His time will come yet. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, zak said:

But this is all basically about playing youngsters in the 1st team Vs Wycombe and lower team leagues to help their development. Do you and @romavillan think we should (have) start(ed) him instead of a player who might not be as much of a prospect but is loyal to Villa?

I think the manager has to decide, what benefits the club most.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think the manager has to decide, what benefits the club most.

Common sense talking, you’ll. ever make it as a politician TRO!! UTV!!!!!

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Common sense talking, you’ll. ever make it as a politician TRO!! UTV!!!!!

I would like to think I am too honest to qualify.

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, The_Steve said:

How do you know he’s not loyal though? I’ve seen no evidence as of yet that he wants to leave. He’s thriving in our developmental system - you don’t therefore need to play them in cup games. His time will come yet. 

This

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I think the manager has to decide, what benefits the club most.

Which leads to this

I hate this bullshit where we throw kids under the bus based on knowing absolutely nothing about them or the conversations that are taking place 

Same as chuk, the club will do the right thing for the club, who knows what the player will end up doing 

[rodders0223]

I think it's pretty obvious. He signs a new deal or he gets his legs broke.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I would like to think I am too honest to qualify.

And too sane!!!

[peterw]

On 28/09/2024 at 09:11, romavillan said:

I think the value in treating this lad well and furthering his development even if he wants to go elsewhere, as others have mentioned, is to be a top target destination for the country's best talent. This is one kid, if we treat him badly and hold him back out of spite then others might be a bit wary of coming. The benefits of doing our best for him regardless could be 10 kids as good as him through the door at a younger age.

Only takes 1 or 2 of them to make it to be worth it.

But its not out of spite, its out of practicality and necessity. Whatever work you do if your employers know that you're leaving then they're not going to send you on development training courses, nor would they include you in any meetings that concern the strategy or again, development of a team or employer. Stands to reason. That wouldn't stop anyone joining that company or in this case football club. Its more bizarre to think someone wouldn't join Villa if we stopped developing them if they tell us they are going to leave. its not spite it diverting your resources to where they're needed. 

[TRO]

There is too much unknown criteria, for us to make judgements on young players like this.

I have seen the boy play, on several occasions, and I am unsure of any firm views.

I think there are too many area's of the player to examine,  for us to form a meaningful opinion.....So I will leave it, to the manager, to decide, and trust his judgement.

.....as the success, exponentially rises, I find myself doing more of this with comfort.

[useless]

Truth be told probably more important to get the likes of Young, Patterson, Rowe, and Jimoh contracted long-term, which we have, Jimoh, and Triston did so pretty much as soon as they turned eighteen, Young and Patterson took longer, so that shows it varies, in how long it takes

But Wilson still a top talent too of course, and would be nice to see him sign a new deal, as I said he might well ultimately decide to leave, but I think if he'd have already made his mind up and told the club he has no intention of signing a contract then I don't think he would be involved as much as he has been. as he's taking up valuable gametime, and they're obviously putting in a lot of work to improve his all round game

The reason he's been missing from recent games is most probably an injury, as he's not in the current U19 Scotland squad, which he normally would be, also he's been in the crowd at Bodymoor watching games - according to VillaTV commentary, which I imagine he wouldn''t be if left out owing to contract reasons

[allani]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

There is too much unknown criteria, for us to make judgements on young players like this.

I have seen the boy play, on several occasions, and I am unsure of any firm views.

I think there are too many area's of the player to examine,  for us to form a meaningful opinion.....So I will leave it, to the manager, to decide, and trust his judgement.

.....as the success, exponentially rises, I find myself doing more of this with comfort.

Absolutely.  We've had some muppets in charge in the past, some decent people too but even managers I have liked (Little, Deano, Gregory, Big Ron) did the odd weird thing or were prevented from doing what they really wanted to by Doug.  So I've rarely felt really comfortable about the decision making process - we've made some great decisions, some poor ones and a lot in the middle.  I feel like we've never seen this level of unity before in terms of everyone at the club being on the same page - the owners trusting the manager, the manager and coaches / scouts looking for exactly the same thing, the manager trusting the owners in return, etc.  Even if we make a bad decision or someone's judgement is later proven to be wrong - it won't be down to wider issues it will just be an honest mistake (sometimes only "apparent" with the benefit of hindsight).

The only thing impacting this is PSR and the other financial regulations that remain entirely unfit for purpose.  I'm still hoping that these will be challenged legally and thrown out to be replaced by sensible measures that ensure that bad / incompetent owners aren't able to bankrupt a club through mismanagement (deliberate or accidental) but still allow credible and ambitious owners to invest wisely in their clubs, improving competition.  At the same time effective "fit and proper" ownership tests should be introduced that ensure that clubs are not bought by State players (directly or very slightly less directly) or by members of the Russian mafia (or any other criminal organisation) to launder their ill-gotten gains through sport.  Unfortunately, the current administrators and government seem quite happy to turn a blind eye to tracking the source of money for some owners when it might impact other investments being made into the wider economy and / or help the PL look more successful.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, allani said:

Absolutely.  We've had some muppets in charge in the past, some decent people too but even managers I have liked (Little, Deano, Gregory, Big Ron) did the odd weird thing or were prevented from doing what they really wanted to by Doug.  So I've rarely felt really comfortable about the decision making process - we've made some great decisions, some poor ones and a lot in the middle.  I feel like we've never seen this level of unity before in terms of everyone at the club being on the same page - the owners trusting the manager, the manager and coaches / scouts looking for exactly the same thing, the manager trusting the owners in return, etc.  Even if we make a bad decision or someone's judgement is later proven to be wrong - it won't be down to wider issues it will just be an honest mistake (sometimes only "apparent" with the benefit of hindsight).

The only thing impacting this is PSR and the other financial regulations that remain entirely unfit for purpose.  I'm still hoping that these will be challenged legally and thrown out to be replaced by sensible measures that ensure that bad / incompetent owners aren't able to bankrupt a club through mismanagement (deliberate or accidental) but still allow credible and ambitious owners to invest wisely in their clubs, improving competition.  At the same time effective "fit and proper" ownership tests should be introduced that ensure that clubs are not bought by State players (directly or very slightly less directly) or by members of the Russian mafia (or any other criminal organisation) to launder their ill-gotten gains through sport.  Unfortunately, the current administrators and government seem quite happy to turn a blind eye to tracking the source of money for some owners when it might impact other investments being made into the wider economy and / or help the PL look more successful.

Money is the root of all evil….we have to factor that in to all our thinking, and not treat it as something new.

[allani]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Money is the root of all evil….we have to factor that in to all our thinking, and not treat it as something new.

Being hyper-pedantic, the love of money is the root of all evil (rather than money itself). 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, allani said:

Being hyper-pedantic, the love of money is the root of all evil (rather than money itself). 

Yeah, that is the correct definition.

but equally whenever dark forces or corruption is involved, money is always close by

[TRO]

18 hours ago, allani said:

Absolutely.  We've had some muppets in charge in the past, some decent people too but even managers I have liked (Little, Deano, Gregory, Big Ron) did the odd weird thing or were prevented from doing what they really wanted to by Doug.  So I've rarely felt really comfortable about the decision making process - we've made some great decisions, some poor ones and a lot in the middle.  I feel like we've never seen this level of unity before in terms of everyone at the club being on the same page - the owners trusting the manager, the manager and coaches / scouts looking for exactly the same thing, the manager trusting the owners in return, etc.  Even if we make a bad decision or someone's judgement is later proven to be wrong - it won't be down to wider issues it will just be an honest mistake (sometimes only "apparent" with the benefit of hindsight).

The only thing impacting this is PSR and the other financial regulations that remain entirely unfit for purpose.  I'm still hoping that these will be challenged legally and thrown out to be replaced by sensible measures that ensure that bad / incompetent owners aren't able to bankrupt a club through mismanagement (deliberate or accidental) but still allow credible and ambitious owners to invest wisely in their clubs, improving competition.  At the same time effective "fit and proper" ownership tests should be introduced that ensure that clubs are not bought by State players (directly or very slightly less directly) or by members of the Russian mafia (or any other criminal organisation) to launder their ill-gotten gains through sport.  Unfortunately, the current administrators and government seem quite happy to turn a blind eye to tracking the source of money for some owners when it might impact other investments being made into the wider economy and / or help the PL look more successful.

Money is the root of all evil….we have to factor that in to all our thinking, and not treat it as something new.

[TRO]

I get comfortably encouraged by young players who back themselves to break through to the first team.

There are very few places that are better than AVFC right now.

I get encouraged to see the fight in young players…..the fight to succeed.

I see it in John Duran,it’s reassuring and a major component in his armoury to succeed.

Rory would do well to mirror John’s audacity and belief…that means staying put and making his mark.

Edited Saturday at 10:58 by TRO

[cheltenham_villa]

21 hours ago, TRO said:

I get comfortably encouraged by young players who back themselves to break through to the first team.

There are very few places that are better than AVFC right now.

I get encouraged to see the fight in young players…..the fight to succeed.

I see it in John Duran,it’s reassuring and a major component in his armoury to succeed.

Rory would do well to mirror John’s audacity and belief…that means staying put and making his mark.

I hope Rory see's that side of the Jhon Duran story. And not the one where we wanted to leave to play first team football, wasn't able to, scored goals from the bench but not yet rewarded with a starting slot. 

I think we've never seen more players coming through at a young age in the game, I don't think many are doing it without a transfer though. 

[CVByrne]

Wants more than double what any academy player has ever been paid and more than some players in first team got when they signed first team contracts.

As I said. It's about money and he's going to leave for Europe to get it.

Article in Athletic about him and the wage demands. 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5833315/2024/10/18/rory-wilson-aston-villa-transfer/

Quote

Villa have proposed a series of five-year contracts, all of which have been dismissed. Weekly salary offers had reached the five-figure mark and comfortably above, although Villa will not meet salary expectations that are more than double the best-paid player in the academy and more than the first contracts of some members in Villa’s senior squad.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by CVByrne