The rising cost of living

[ender4]

21 hours ago, Genie said:

I do (genuinely) wonder why nuclear is favoured over things like tidal, wind etc?

Not just here, everywhere. If it was such a no brainer then why are we going down the nuclear route?

Isn't it because of stability. Wind, solar, tidal, etc have peaks and troughs. Sometimes they don't produce enough power and sometimes they produce too much power (which can be just as bad).  Nuclear gives you the stable base load that produces the amount you want over different seasons, years, climate changes, wind patterns, etc.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Isn't it because of stability. Wind, solar, tidal, etc have peaks and troughs. Sometimes they don't produce enough power and sometimes they produce too much power (which can be just as bad).  Nuclear gives you the stable base load that produces the amount you want over different seasons, years, climate changes, wind patterns, etc.

I guess that’s a big part of it, although the tides are quite reliable but I don’t know if it’s feasible to power a whole country that way.

[sidcow]

12 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Isn't it because of stability. Wind, solar, tidal, etc have peaks and troughs. Sometimes they don't produce enough power and sometimes they produce too much power (which can be just as bad).  Nuclear gives you the stable base load that produces the amount you want over different seasons, years, climate changes, wind patterns, etc.

The cost of these new Nuclear facilities + the enormous cost of running them + the enormous mark up the electricity is sold for would pay for one hell of a lot of batteries and other storage solutions and new hydro electricity.

we've already got some Nuclear for interim baseload management, shouldn't be building new ones.

[chrisp65]

34 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Isn't it because of stability. Wind, solar, tidal, etc have peaks and troughs. Sometimes they don't produce enough power and sometimes they produce too much power (which can be just as bad).  Nuclear gives you the stable base load that produces the amount you want over different seasons, years, climate changes, wind patterns, etc.

There’s hardly been a day recently when the tide hasn’t come in.

[chrisp65]

19 minutes ago, sidcow said:

The cost of these new Nuclear facilities + the enormous cost of running them + the enormous mark up the electricity is sold for would pay for one hell of a lot of batteries and other storage solutions and new hydro electricity.

we've already got some Nuclear for interim baseload management, shouldn't be building new ones.

Imagine spending the equivalent of a nuclear build cost… but on insulation.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Imagine spending the equivalent of a nuclear build cost… but on insulation.

Yes, that too.  Forgot to put that in the talk about what harm Cameron has done.   Imagine how little intermittent solar and wind energy we'd need if every house was properly insulated.

Edited November 30, 2023 by sidcow

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Imagine spending the equivalent of a nuclear build cost… but on insulation.

I do agree, and it’ll go a long way, but I expect there’s millions of homes that can’t be improved significantly with more insulation. Plus insulation won’t charge the millions of electric cars coming soon.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I do agree, and it’ll go a long way, but I expect there’s millions of homes that can’t be improved significantly with more insulation. Plus insulation won’t charge the millions of electric cars coming soon.

There are many different forms of insulation and some are more expensive and technically more tricky than others. But absolutely every poorly insulated home can be significantly improved. Maybe not a quick fix, and not easily solved by chancers offering to Phil McCavity with polystyrene balls. But there is always a technically correct solution for every building.

[Chindie]

Nuclear is safe. Its predominate problems are it has absolutely obscene start up costs, due to the size of the projects to create nuclear power stations, which include having to do full scale prototypes of every stage of the build to have it signed off prior to the actual build, and have every element signed off at the smallest level for the true build. There's also a full ecosystem behind operating and handling the materials and waste behind them. The benefits are they 'just work' and after the start up costs produce cheap energy.

All renewables have issues. Wind power is buggered by low and high winds, and there's no storage solution yet for the times they produce power that can't be used. Tidal has loads of issues that haven't been overcome yet such as the same storage issues and environmental problems (both ecological impacts and appropriate sites), and scaling problems. Solar again has storage issues and is affected by weather, and still has scale problems (though lesser than tidal). The UK doesn't really have much scope for hydro electric.

The solution is diversification and investment in developing renewable efficiencies - notably we need ways of storing power that tie into the grid. At the moment we have the absurd situation where we have wind farms either producing power that does nothing, or just straight up turning them off. Which is mental. But we don't have those solutions yet. That's where the money needs to go.

[sidcow]

36 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Nuclear is safe. Its predominate problems are it has absolutely obscene start up costs, due to the size of the projects to create nuclear power stations, which include having to do full scale prototypes of every stage of the build to have it signed off prior to the actual build, and have every element signed off at the smallest level for the true build. There's also a full ecosystem behind operating and handling the materials and waste behind them. The benefits are they 'just work' and after the start up costs produce cheap energy.

All renewables have issues. Wind power is buggered by low and high winds, and there's no storage solution yet for the times they produce power that can't be used. Tidal has loads of issues that haven't been overcome yet such as the same storage issues and environmental problems (both ecological impacts and appropriate sites), and scaling problems. Solar again has storage issues and is affected by weather, and still has scale problems (though lesser than tidal). The UK doesn't really have much scope for hydro electric.

The solution is diversification and investment in developing renewable efficiencies - notably we need ways of storing power that tie into the grid. At the moment we have the absurd situation where we have wind farms either producing power that does nothing, or just straight up turning them off. Which is mental. But we don't have those solutions yet. That's where the money needs to go.

But new nuclear is still years away.  At the moment truly global electricity grids are being created with huge interconnectors spanning the globe. 

Fact is the sun IS always shining somewhere and the wind IS always blowing somewhere, and despite what the doomsayers might say, often blowing here. 

Countries who have invested heavily in Hyydro like. Norway will be making a ton of money out of exporting it. 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

 insulation won’t charge the millions of electric cars coming soon.

The impact of all the cars being charged is overstated I think.  The average car only travels 20 miles a day and the vast majority will be charging up at home, they'll sip those 20 miles back in the middle of the night at low demand times. 

That's what the vast majority of those millions of vehicles will need. Winning back their 20 - 50 miles used that day. It's not going to break the grid. 

They'll actually do the grid far more help by acting as a massive battery with vehicle to grid technology in peak times. 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by sidcow

[foreveryoung]

Filled up with deisel Sunday tesco by me £1.48 litre, thought fuel coming down again great. Filled up today near Cannock, all local fuel stations average £1.57. I guess a most will still rip us off as long as they can get away with it.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Filled up with deisel Sunday tesco by me £1.48 litre, thought fuel coming down again great. Filled up today near Cannock, all local fuel stations average £1.57. I guess a most will still rip us off as long as they can get away with it.

£1.49 for diesel at supermarkets in Tamworth 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Filled up with deisel Sunday tesco by me £1.48 litre, thought fuel coming down again great. Filled up today near Cannock, all local fuel stations average £1.57. I guess a most will still rip us off as long as they can get away with it.

It is slowly but the big forecourt players are just profiteering again. Petrol used to be one of the most price sensitive products out there but it seems not enough people are that put off by the prices any more. If people stopped paying the high pump prices and on,y went to the local lowest price forecourt the. Prices would drop but people are stupid

[Lichfield Dean]

5 hours ago, sidcow said:

The impact of all the cars being charged is overstated I think.  The average car only travels 20 miles a day and the vast majority will be charging up at home, they'll sip those 20 miles back in the middle of the night at low demand times. 

That's what the vast majority of those millions of vehicles will need. Winning back their 20 - 50 miles used that day. It's not going to break the grid. 

They'll actually do the grid far more help by acting as a massive battery with vehicle to grid technology in peak times. 

 

We fill our electric car up with electricity about once every three or four weeks, usually after 11pm. I bet the majority would be similar too. For local tootling about they are a huge win.

And if the two-way storage and return thing can prove workable that would be hugely beneficial. We already get paid by Octopus occasionally to use electricity (when the agile tariff goes negative) and that should hopefully only become a more normal thing in the future.

[Seat68]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Filled up with deisel Sunday tesco by me £1.48 litre, thought fuel coming down again great. Filled up today near Cannock, all local fuel stations average £1.57. I guess a most will still rip us off as long as they can get away with it.

Same further down the road in Stafford. 

[Xela]

Flights to East / South East Asia were about £500-£650 for about 10 years - 2009 - 2019. Had a quick look the other day for a couple of destinations in March and they start at about £1300 now. 

I wonder if this is the 'new normal' for long haul these days?

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, Xela said:

Flights to East / South East Asia were about £500-£650 for about 10 years - 2009 - 2019. Had a quick look the other day for a couple of destinations in March and they start at about £1300 now. 

I wonder if this is the 'new normal' for long haul these days?

Some decent deals get posted on hot uk deals, eg £539 return to Japan.

[bickster]

Fuel watch… prices at some pumps have been coming down up here, Tesco has reached as low as £1:46.9 my local always the cheapest self service garages have been at £1:44.9 for weeks now.

The local has just reduced to £1:39.9 today

(the above are diesel prices, unleaded a good few pence cheaper still)

[foreveryoung]

On 13/12/2023 at 19:50, bickster said:

Fuel watch… prices at some pumps have been coming down up here, Tesco has reached as low as £1:46.9 my local always the cheapest self service garages have been at £1:44.9 for weeks now.

The local has just reduced to £1:39.9 today

(the above are diesel prices, unleaded a good few pence cheaper still)

I see they haven't evened the prices up, like they can, 10p less for petrol at most places.

Also your Shells, BPs and Essos are still rip off £1.55 +