nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jim said: Rubbish. Almost everyone in the game talks about league position. ”Villa will be looking to improve on x position this season” “Villa will be looking to improve on x points this season as the season before they finished on x points but their league position wasn’t as good” Said no one ever. Haha you need get out more because people do look at points as well Edited May 8, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, jim said: Rubbish. Almost everyone in the game talks about league position. ”Villa will be looking to improve on x position this season” “Villa will be looking to improve on x points this season as the season before they finished on x points but their league position wasn’t as good” Said no one ever. Personally I’m more interested in xG and xGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 28 minutes ago, Dale said: But surely points dictate that we are a worse team than last season, just the league is relatively weaker than it was last. It could be all the teams are weaker, likewise it could be the teams are mostly stronger and giving each other closer games (other than the two at the top) I don't think you can make an assumption either way, comparing points across seasons isn't really a reliable guide to anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sparrow1988 Posted May 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2022 1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Personally I’m more interested in xG and xGA. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It could be all the teams are weaker, likewise it could be the teams are mostly stronger and giving each other closer games (other than the two at the top) I don't think you can make an assumption either way, comparing points across seasons isn't really a reliable guide to anything at all. By that logic neither is league position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, nick76 said: Haha you need get out more because people do look at points as well You and your 3 mates can carry on talking about points. Everyone else will look at league position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: By that logic neither is league position! Well, no. Comparing that we finished 10th one season to 6th another season shows our relative competence compared to the other teams in the division. Comparing 45 to 55 points doesn't really give any insight whatsoever. More points probably means we won more games, but in a different division of teams with different players and managers, it's a bit arbitrary. I want to finish higher in the table, that's what gets us into Europe, not necessarily a better points tally year on year. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 Remember those 3 years of progression under Martin O'Neill? A better points tally every season, I recall how delighted we were by the continuous improvement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, jim said: You and your 3 mates can carry on talking about points. Everyone else will look at league position. 3 mates, them were the good old days! Now there is just me and Clive, although as a teddy bear he doesn’t say much. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 1 minute ago, nick76 said: 3 mates, them were the good old days! Now there is just me and Clive, although as a teddy bear he doesn’t say much. Clive gets points for trying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Well, no. Comparing that we finished 10th one season to 6th another season shows our relative competence compared to the other teams in the division. Comparing 45 to 55 points doesn't really give any insight whatsoever. More points probably means we won more games, but in a different division of teams with different players and managers, it's a bit arbitrary. I want to finish higher in the table, that's what gets us into Europe, not necessarily a better points tally year on year. It also shows your strengths that if you are making your home stadium a fortress or whether you are better away, whether you are picking up points when you don’t expect. Progression is improving on your weaknesses, enhancing your strengths. Finishing 11th on 55 points and let’s say 10th on 46 points, you would argue the prior season was stronger. Then you look at the underlying factors like injuries, change in managers, out of pandemic full stadiums…etc to understand why. If you just look at league position you think you have done better but have actually lost for example the equivalent of 3 more games. You have to just look at more than just league position when you are progressing like we are. League position is the key factor, nobody is arguing with that but when you are a team progressing, looking at your points, your wins and losses is essential to help improving your league position in the future. If your league position improves slightly but the other key metrics decrease is that progression? The answer is yes and no! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted May 8, 2022 Author Share Posted May 8, 2022 Good for us if Leicester lose this. Still likely to finish above us but if we win two of our games they need to get some results, and they look awful right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 5 hours ago, nick76 said: 3 mates, them were the good old days! Now there is just me and Clive, although as a teddy bear he doesn’t say much. You can attempt to laugh it off but he's dead right. No-one ever talks about point totals, ever. You make a ridiculous comment and are refusing to backpedal your way out of it. Quit while you're behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 Four games to go. Our aim should be home wins against Palace and Burnley. Where we finish up then, who really knows? Pity Liverplop aren't our last game, with two cup finals to play and perhaps their league hopes consigned to the bin, they might have played Milner & their kids again had that been the case, but it's likely they will still be very much up for it on Tuesday and Citeh may want to sign off as champions in style in their last game. Anything other than a hiding in both of those games would be acceptable and a point or points from them, would be unexpected, but most welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 34 minutes ago, R.Bear said: You can attempt to laugh it off but he's dead right. No-one ever talks about point totals, ever. You make a ridiculous comment and are refusing to backpedal your way out of it. Quit while you're behind. Ridiculous comment? I’ve answered in more detail above, if you don’t agree and can only focus on one thing that’s fine for you! Nobody ever talks about points total ever? I understand if you don’t want to use points total in any discussion but it’s laughable to say people, analysts, experts don’t talk about it. I’m guessing you just want to be extreme to emphasise your point but you don’t actually believe that. Backpedal? Quit while I’m behind? Are we on a playground with the kids comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 Leicester losing was good. Still have Watford and Norwich to play so them winning v Everton would've made it hard for us to finish above them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 24 minutes ago, nick76 said: Nobody ever talks about points total ever? I understand if you don’t want to use points total in any discussion but it’s laughable to say people, analysts, experts don’t talk about it. I’m guessing you just want to be extreme to emphasise your point but you don’t actually believe that No, they dont. The only time its ever mentioned was back in the day when 40pts was seen as the catch all safety total. Nowadays of course its usually a lot lower so doesnt mean anything. The other time was when Man City were chasing after 100 points because its a nice round number and the milestone had never been reached before. Outside of that, no-one gives a shit and why would they? Everyone remembers we finished 2nd in 1992-93 or 4th in 1995-96. Only the biggest stats geeks could tell you what points totals we had those seasons. Anyway, this is a tedious subject. You're just wrong, stop dragging it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, R.Bear said: No, they dont. The only time its ever mentioned was back in the day when 40pts was seen as the catch all safety total. Nowadays of course its usually a lot lower so doesnt mean anything. The other time was when Man City were chasing after 100 points because its a nice round number and the milestone had never been reached before. Outside of that, no-one gives a shit and why would they? Everyone remembers we finished 2nd in 1992-93 or 4th in 1995-96. Only the biggest stats geeks could tell you what points totals we had those seasons. Anyway, this is a tedious subject. You're just wrong, stop dragging it out. Well obviously you’re wrong, that’s a given but I agree it’s a tedious conversation because we both think the other is wrong. Enjoy your day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 23 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Leicester losing was good. Still have Watford and Norwich to play so them winning v Everton would've made it hard for us to finish above them. Still you can see them getting the 6 points there and home to Southampton last game would give them 9. They'll end above us as will Brighton. 11th it's looking like if we can beat Palace and Burnley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 (edited) With Brentfrod and Newcastle now below us, having played 2 games more, which is the next team it is a " travesty " for us to be below in the table now? A week or so ago they were the benchmark as to how " garbage " everything was going. Imagine being a Leicester fan now? Edited May 8, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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