duke313 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 17 minutes ago, Zatman said: Juventus got a huge points deduction for inflating prices. Paratici is still banned on paper Premier League cant do anything about Brazilian clubs but can about us That wasn’t why they got a points deduction, it’s what started the investigation. They along with 10 other clubs were acquitted of inflating player prices. Juve got a points deduction because that investigation opened a whole can of worms after they’d been found to be falsifying financial records. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 34 minutes ago, villa4europe said: But how? There is more than enough precedent for a kid with this much potential but so little playing time going for £19m I'd be more worried about the Everton Dobbins for timbo deal £9m for a 20 year old on the near periphery of the team, PL minutes and started games in Europe, 28 starts in the championship a season ago too (more if not for injury), the fee not out of the ordinary at all on that basis. Not sure on Dobbin’s “value” though, but he’s got PL minutes for their first team so it’s not nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 I'm wondering if Monchi has been playing 4D chess for a year - sell Ramsey, Archer, Philogene and Azaz for 18m, 12m, 5m and 2m - with no transfer deal in the opposite direction, so if anyone has the balls to point the finger and say we're over inflating the fee's of youngsters our legal argument is to point at those transfers - precedent set. Boom. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 11 minutes ago, david-avfc said: £9m for a 20 year old on the near periphery of the team, PL minutes and started games in Europe, 28 starts in the championship a season ago too (more if not for injury), the fee not out of the ordinary at all on that basis. Not sure on Dobbin’s “value” though, but he’s got PL minutes for their first team so it’s not nothing. More that it sounds like we've more or less paid maatsens release clause and they've paid the same number as the teenager they've already bought off us, absolutely nothing to see there Everton we've bought a player for around £9m (?) and we've sold them a player for around £9m, don't think the values of the players is suspicious more the whole thing in principle but as someone said last night how can you possibly prove we dont rate Dobbin and have only bought him for creative accounting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 How can they determine objective valuation of players legally anyway? I mean I am sure they have some sort of methodology but it is just so subjective regardless. You can do it easily enough with inanimate assets like property but not so with human beings 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 23 hours ago, Isa said: How can they determine objective valuation of players legally anyway? I mean I am sure they have some sort of methodology but it is just so subjective regardless. You can do it easily enough with inanimate assets like property but not so with human beings The price of anything, is what someone, is prepared to pay.......It's a free market. I don't see how they can intervene, in a clubs valuations....it's their business. If you make rules, that are unfair, folk will find a way around them....The Proverb " Necessity is the mother of invention" kicks in. Edited June 24 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Why are people basing his value on the amount of starts he’s had? We’ve sold him for that price because of his potential, not how many games he’s played for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 minute ago, duke313 said: Why are people basing his value on the amount of starts he’s had? We’ve sold him for that price because of his potential, not how many games he’s played for us. The value is purely based on his potential. All young player transfers are based upon that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 5 minutes ago, wishywashy said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroVillan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 30 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Great bit of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 38 minutes ago, duke313 said: Why are people basing his value on the amount of starts he’s had? We’ve sold him for that price because of his potential, not how many games he’s played for us. Well let's be honest, if we took PSR out of the equation and bought a talented prospect with the same senior experience from another Premier League club for £19m, we would all be just a bit nonplussed wouldn't we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Isa said: Well let's be honest, if we took PSR out of the equation and bought a talented prospect with the same senior experience from another Premier League club for £19m, we would all be just a bit nonplussed wouldn't we? No, the senior appearances are irrelevant. Man Utd paid £20m+ for Amad Diallo with less starts for Atalanta than Kellyman. Countless Brazilians are hoovered up each by the elite for even more money. They’re all bought for their potential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroVillan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Isa said: Well let's be honest, if we took PSR out of the equation and bought a talented prospect with the same senior experience from another Premier League club for £19m, we would all be just a bit nonplussed wouldn't we? But then compare that to Chelsea signing a player in the Brazilian league same age as Omari for 65m with not having played in the Prem at all and it all seems reasonable. crazy amounts of money on nothing more than a glowing junior output. Football these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted June 23 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Isa said: Well let's be honest, if we took PSR out of the equation and bought a talented prospect with the same senior experience from another Premier League club for £19m, we would all be just a bit nonplussed wouldn't we? Wasn't that roughly what Sheff Utd paid Liverpool for Rhian Brewster a few years back? Sure some of their fans would have been nonplussed, others might have been excited. There are precedents, though the price of young relatively untested players is baffling to me at times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 12 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said: Wasn't that roughly what Sheff Utd paid Liverpool for Rhian Brewster a few years back? Sure some of their fans would have been nonplussed, others might have been excited. There are precedents, though the price of young relatively untested players is baffling to me at times Brewster had just come of the back of a successful loan somewhere from what I recall. Saying that, it was still considered quite an excessive fee at the time and proved to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Isa said: Well let's be honest, if we took PSR out of the equation and bought a talented prospect with the same senior experience from another Premier League club for £19m, we would all be just a bit nonplussed wouldn't we? No, we'd be convinced that monchi was a genius and emery will coach him to reach his maximum potential... Signing youngsters is weird, it's hard to know who will know who and if a good chunk of it will come from FIFA / FM and with that in mind there's surprisingly few English wonderkids knocking about, if we announced we were signing noah darvich for £20m theres a few that would get excited for that reason And fwiw I think kadan Young is higher rated on FM than kellyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Isa said: Brewster had just come of the back of a successful loan somewhere from what I recall. Saying that, it was still considered quite an excessive fee at the time and proved to be so. People criticised it from day one and thought Liverpool were taking the piss, same when they sold Ibe and ward for way over their value too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: People criticised it from day one and thought Liverpool were taking the piss, same when they sold Ibe and ward for way over their value too And Solanke the City sold about 8 players to Southampton in the range of £10m to £22m and now we are doing something similar we didn’t create the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Could be brilliant one day, but as sad or disappointed as I am £19m is very good for the club at this point, it’s how we now use the £19m. We are at a strategic stage where we need players in the here and now, if we don’t elevate ourselves at this moment I don’t see us having a better chance - our stars are aligned, w have to go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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