Summer Transfer Window 2022

[KAZZAM]

Gonna have competition from Leicester for a CB if Fofana does go to Chelsea. 

So might be worth it to get something agreed quick. 

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Emil Forsberg from Leipzig the latest name being touted by Blid … Don’t know anything  about him 

He didnt push on like he should have when he broke into the Bundesliga. I would avoid, he isnt fast enough for the Premier League for me and isnt better than Emi if we were playing him as a 10

He is also nearly 31 and isnt improving

[Delphinho123]

Villa are going to have to be very savvy if they’re attempting to bring in a centre half that’s better than Chambers for a small-ish fee. There can’t be many out there…

The centre half issue is now an unwelcome distraction from the fact we still need 1, if not 2 new central midfielders to really improve this side. 

You buy two better central midfielders than Ramsey (who is an excellent young player) and McGinn and we wouldn’t have to do half the defending we do now anyway. 

[Adman]

31 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

As with any business we have a tax liability on the disposal of any asset. Players are considered assets, so if we buy a player for 10m and sell him for 30m we have a tax liability on the 20m profit. Yes, this is all accounted for at year end but it is tax fraud to dispose of an asset and not account for the value correctly. It is also against the law for two businesses to collude to undervalue the value of an asset to gain from the undervalued price. HMRC are all over football. They recently changed the rules on transfers so the club has now got to record certain information with regard to agent fees. Although the club pays the agent the player is liable for the taxation on this money. For example, if we buy Webster from Brighton for 50m and we pay 5m to an agent for brokering the deal, that 5m is considered money we paid Webster and Webster has a 48% tax liability on the 5m.

Home grown players and free transfers are treated differently, they are treated like capital gains tax.When we dispose of a home grown player we have an 18% tax liability to HMRC for the sale. So the Jack 100m was only worth 82m to Villa.

That's all fine.  I still don't understand how that applies to player swaps.  Player leaves the club who has a £7mill value on the books - new player comes in as a "swap" therefore an equivalent value hence the swap.  Adjustment to be made for contract length and salary.  I understand that Matty Cash's market value and his book value are different things but they are of course linked. 

Swap deals don't happen very often because the chances of all the stakeholders pointing in the right direction at the same point in time is very unlikely.  Especially now the salary gap between our league and others is bigger than its ever been

 

[sne]

Forsberg had that fantastic season when he had the most assists out of any player in the top-5 leagues. But then he got a bad injury and haven't reached that level since.

Still the best player in the Swedish national side most games but don't see how he fits in here with Coutinho and Buendia playing at the 10 and us not using wide players. 

He turns 31 in a couple months so can't see the sense in going for him.

[CVByrne]

8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Villa are going to have to be very savvy if they’re attempting to bring in a centre half that’s better than Chambers for a small-ish fee. There can’t be many out there…

The centre half issue is now an unwelcome distraction from the fact we still need 1, if not 2 new central midfielders to really improve this side. 

You buy two better central midfielders than Ramsey (who is an excellent young player) and McGinn and we wouldn’t have to do half the defending we do now anyway. 

CB is a far more important hole to fill than CM is

[Tayls]

21 minutes ago, KAZZAM said:

Gonna have competition from Leicester for a CB if Fofana does go to Chelsea. 

So might be worth it to get something agreed quick. 

They will have money though. We don’t. 

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

CB is a far more important hole to fill than CM is

Not a chance. 

I know you’re obsessed with Carlos and this ball playing centre half we so desperately need (I’m not even sure Carlos is that player) but I’d much rather spend whatever money is left on another central midfielder instead of another centre half. 

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Adman said:

That's all fine.  I still don't understand how that applies to player swaps.  Player leaves the club who has a £7mill value on the books - new player comes in as a "swap" therefore an equivalent value hence the swap.  Adjustment to be made for contract length and salary.  I understand that Matty Cash's market value and his book value are different things but they are of course linked. 

Swap deals don't happen very often because the chances of all the stakeholders pointing in the right direction at the same point in time is very unlikely.  Especially now the salary gap between our league and others is bigger than its ever been

 

The problem is with the term book value. We use that value with regard to the amortisation costs of a player. So player costs 20m, 4 year contract and the player has a book value (amortisation amount) of 5m a year which count towards FFP and tax liability. After 3 years, the player has a book value of 5m as the club has amortised 5m a yr for 3 years. However, the actual value of the player is not necessarily 5m. The player's value may have increased in value and could be worth 60m (although, this doesn't tend to be something that happens at Villa ). . We can only swap players if we agree a value for the swap otherwise it is open to tax fraud, hence it is not permitted. 

An analogy, if I am a painter and I agree to paint your house and you are a plumber and u agree to put in a new shower in my house that is not permitted as a swap. We are each providing a service to the other person and each of us has a tax liability on the value of the service we provide. HMRC gets a cut from everything we do.

[striker]

2 minutes ago, Tayls said:

They will have money though. We don’t. 

How do you know Villa don’t have any money? The owners are loaded ffs!!

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, Tayls said:

They will have money though. We don’t. 

The 'new' owner apparently doesn't want to spend any money and is much less of an appetite to invest in Leicester. Also, the main source of the money is from Duty free shopping and that has got a bit of a killing over the last few years with airports effectively closed.

[Adman]

8 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

The problem is with the term book value. We use that value with regard to the amortisation costs of a player. So player costs 20m, 4 year contract and the player has a book value (amortisation amount) of 5m a year which count towards FFP and tax liability. After 3 years, the player has a book value of 5m as the club has amortised 5m a yr for 3 years. However, the actual value of the player is not necessarily 5m. The player's value may have increased in value and could be worth 60m (although, this doesn't tend to be something that happens at Villa ). . We can only swap players if we agree a value for the swap otherwise it is open to tax fraud, hence it is not permitted. 

An analogy, if I am a painter and I agree to paint your house and you are a plumber and u agree to put in a new shower in my house that is not permitted as a swap. We are each providing a service to the other person and each of us has a tax liability on the value of the service we provide. HMRC gets a cut from everything we do.

Are swap deals actually not permitted? I didn't know that

Its not quite the same though.  The plumber wouldn't be able to expense the cost of decorating his house, and neither would the decorator so this would be a tax dodge.  A better analogy would be two shops selling off excess stock to each other.  The stock has a book value, if they swap it for another asset - they dispose of one and purchase the other.  So it's fine if they both applied the same £x thousand to the purchase so ended up all square.  Weird

Edited August 16, 2022 by Adman
Edit

[Tayls]

7 minutes ago, striker said:

How do you know Villa don’t have any money? The owners are loaded ffs!!

We don’t have any more money for transfers though! 

[CVByrne]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Not a chance. 

I know you’re obsessed with Carlos and this ball playing centre half we so desperately need (I’m not even sure Carlos is that player) but I’d much rather spend whatever money is left on another central midfielder instead of another centre half. 

Carlos has very high passing stats when compared to other CBs, it's the one thing the stats are there for. It's undeniable that he's statistically a very good ball playing CB, with number of passes, passes under pressure etc.. 

Fine if you don't think it's that important to the team at this time, but you undermine yourself by saying he's not a ball playing CB when it's abundantly clear he is. When posting things which are clearly not based on any facts or data you just undermine you opinions as a whole. 

[Peter Griffin]

8 minutes ago, Adman said:

Aren't swap deals actually not permitted? I didn't know that

Its not quite the same though.  The plumber wouldn't be able to expense the cost of decorating his house, and neither would the decorator so this would be a tax dodge.  A better analogy would be two shops selling off excess stock to each other.  The stock has a book value, if they swap it for another asset - they dispose of one and purchase the other.  So it's fine if they both applied the same £x thousand to the purchase so ended up all square.  Weird

It would still be a sale by the shop and considered revenue and also a purchase by the shop which would be considered a cost. They can't just leave it as a wash. When there is a swap deal in football, the clubs must agree a value for the swap. There is also VAT payable on player transfers, so even in a swap deal the VAT will need to be accounted for, that is for domestic transfers, I am not sure of the VAT rules with non UK based clubs but I am sure there is some sort of liability.

EDIT: I just checked VAT on non domestic transfers and the club has no VAT liability to HMRC but for a domestic transfer the VAT is 20% of the transfer fee. I think we should be shopping abroad 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Peter Griffin

[Adman]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It would still be a sale by the shop and considered revenue and also a purchase by the shop which would be considered a cost. They can't just leave it as a wash. When there is a swap deal in football, the clubs must agree a value for the swap. There is also VAT payable on player transfers, so even in a swap deal the VAT will need to be accounted for, that is for domestic transfers, I am not sure of the VAT rules with non UK based clubs but I am sure there is some sort of liability.

Of course. All doable, just not very likely that the situation arises

 

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, Tayls said:

We don’t have any more money for transfers though! 

We don’t really know this do we. Are we prepared to spend on player(s) but can’t find or attract those of the required level ? If we can’t find improvements over what we have we will not spend for spending sake. 

 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Adman said:

Of course. All doable, just not very likely that the situation arises

 

I think clubs steer clear of swap deals as it is subject to so many potential tax and FFP issues it is not worth the hassle. Particularly so for a well run club, I suppose Blues must do lots of swap deals 

[Peter Griffin]

I do think we have money available to spend on players if we wish but the reluctance to spending it is that it reduces our budget for future transfer windows

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I do think we have money available to spend on players if we wish but the reluctance to spending it is that it reduces our budget for future transfer windows

I still find this a bizarre take on why we wouldn’t spend now, makes no sense.  I know you’ve try to explain it before but doesn’t fly imo.