Popular Post Jas10 Posted July 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 27, 2022 Not sure about this “number 8” talk… I suppose it depends on what the definition of that kind of player is… Imo, the last thing we need is another player in the mould of Ramsey, McGinn and Sanson… unless we’re selling one or two of them…unlikely… We need a different type, maybe a hybrid 6/8… someone like Sangare would fit the bill and SG has stated that Kamara can play as a 6 or an 8… Luiz is the best partner we have for him now and makes us better in possession but he lacks physicality… it’s one of the main things we have been missing for so long and is why we struggle so often in that midfield “scrap”. But, we must retain and control possession better more than anything. Having both McGinn and JJ in the side really hinders us in that respect, we only need one “action” CM in the side. And we have a wealth of attacking talent in front of midfield which can reduce the attacking responsibility of midfield and allow them to be more solid and focus on build up play. We need to stop being wasteful and stop losing possession so cheaply. I just strongly feel that we need a composed and solid base in midfield that is defensively strong and excellent in possession. That would unleash our attacking talent and allow them to fully express themselves… that way we could get both Coutinho (overall our best attacking player, esp in terms of scoring) and Buendia (our most creative player, best passer) in the side and give the CF a much better and more consistent supply of genuine goals scoring opportunities…. There would be no need for these players to drop deeper or search for the ball games if we address that midfield balance correctly… Maybe chance creation is more of a problem than being clinical… harder for the CF to be sharp, focussed and clinical if he only gets the very occasional and possibly more difficult chance in a game… a more consistent and higher quality supply ins only going to help… 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I have to admit I haven’t seen Sangare play live and his stats are annoyingly hidden on FBref. I’m guessing he’s similar to Bissouma, am I right? I think Gerrard will go for someone 24+ so Sangare fits but if we went with a younger player I like Kephrem Thuram and/or Nico Gonzalez at Barca. Kone would be a decent shout too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 In Terms of strikers.....we're being linked with players of an an inferior goal record to what we already have. We need to be careful, here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Strange that all of the "brilliant" players we have like davis, Sanson, traore, el ghazi haven't been sold yet. Maybe they just aren't very good after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Not sure about this “number 8” talk… I suppose it depends on what the definition of that kind of player is… Imo, the last thing we need is another player in the mould of Ramsey, McGinn and Sanson… unless we’re selling one or two of them…unlikely… We need a different type, maybe a hybrid 6/8… someone like Sangare would fit the bill and SG has stated that Kamara can play as a 6 or an 8… Luiz is the best partner we have for him now and makes us better in possession but he lacks physicality… it’s one of the main things we have been missing for so long and is why we struggle so often in that midfield “scrap”. But, we must retain and control possession better more than anything. Having both McGinn and JJ in the side really hinders us in that respect, we only need one “action” CM in the side. And we have a wealth of attacking talent in front of midfield which can reduce the attacking responsibility of midfield and allow them to be more solid and focus on build up play. We need to stop being wasteful and stop losing possession so cheaply. I just strongly feel that we need a composed and solid base in midfield that is defensively strong and excellent in possession. That would unleash our attacking talent and allow them to fully express themselves… that way we could get both Coutinho (overall our best attacking player, esp in terms of scoring) and Buendia (our most creative player, best passer) in the side and give the CF a much better and more consistent supply of genuine goals scoring opportunities…. There would be no need for these players to drop deeper or search for the ball games if we address that midfield balance correctly… Maybe chance creation is more of a problem than being clinical… harder for the CF to be sharp, focussed and clinical if he only gets the very occasional and possibly more difficult chance in a game… a more consistent and higher quality supply ins only going to help… I think you are on the right track.....Coutinho and Buendia is as good as it gets in terms of creativity......we need someone to help Kamara stop them being negated. We have some great talent already......but opponents ( sometimes inferior talent to us) are able to shut our talent down, we need a player or 2 to deal with them. When our talent is denied time and space, our edge is nullified and we look ordinary.....we need a player to restore that by allowing the time and space for our creators. I hope we bring in another to help Kamara as one goes further up to mix it and free up our talent boys.....and the other stays back to hold. We do need a couple more...midfielder and striker ( with a better record than ours have got, or what is the point)......we don't need numbers, we need game changers. Edited July 27, 2022 by TRO 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, burchy said: I have to admit I haven’t seen Sangare play live and his stats are annoyingly hidden on FBref. I’m guessing he’s similar to Bissouma, am I right? I think Gerrard will go for someone 24+ so Sangare fits but if we went with a younger player I like Kephrem Thuram and/or Nico Gonzalez at Barca. Kone would be a decent shout too. Probably more defensive than Bissouma (played predominantly at DM rather than CM or box to box) but carries the ball well and can get forward. Really good at interceptions and tackles, good in the air too (something we lack). Could be developed into that hybrid kind of player… still young. How he’d adjust is probably the main question, Eredivisie is quite poor but he did well in Ligue 1 and moving to PSV seemed a surprise move as he was still highly rated while at Toulouse. I think his game has become more disciplined since too… he’s only improved… I had seen his fbref stats before and they were very impressive. You can get a more detailed breakdown of stats from previous seasons if you look further down a player page on there too… But anyway, it doesn’t have to be Sangare. There are plenty of alternatives out there… and you listed a few. Maybe we shouldn’t go for someone too young/inexperienced though. It would be good to have someone with a bit of leadership and physicality… an imposing presence would help bolster our midfield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, villa89 said: Strange that all of the "brilliant" players we have like davis, Sanson, traore, el ghazi haven't been sold yet. Maybe they just aren't very good after all. I think we do have a habit of over hyping some......its a good barometer, when you can't sell them, or even worse no offers come in. However.....we are still employing players from when we was on our journey from the championship, so its kinda understandable only modest interest is there. We have to move these on before we can venture in to upgrade territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Probably more defensive than Bissouma (played predominantly at DM rather than CM or box to box) but carries the ball well and can get forward. Really good at interceptions and tackles, good in the air too (something we lack). Could be developed into that hybrid kind of player… still young. How he’d adjust is probably the main question, Eredivisie is quite poor but he did well in Ligue 1 and moving to PSV seemed a surprise move as he was still highly rated while at Toulouse. I think his game has become more disciplined since too… he’s only improved… I had seen his fbref stats before and they were very impressive. You can get a more detailed breakdown of stats from previous seasons if you look further down a player page on there too… But anyway, it doesn’t have to be Sangare. There are plenty of alternatives out there… and you listed a few. Maybe we shouldn’t go for someone too young/inexperienced though. It would be good to have someone with a bit of leadership and physicality… an imposing presence would help bolster our midfield. Its a strange league the Eridivise, while I take your point.....we have seen some cracking players make an impact in the Premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 26 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Not sure about this “number 8” talk… I suppose it depends on what the definition of that kind of player is… Imo, the last thing we need is another player in the mould of Ramsey, McGinn and Sanson… unless we’re selling one or two of them…unlikely… We need a different type, maybe a hybrid 6/8… someone like Sangare would fit the bill and SG has stated that Kamara can play as a 6 or an 8… Luiz is the best partner we have for him now and makes us better in possession but he lacks physicality… it’s one of the main things we have been missing for so long and is why we struggle so often in that midfield “scrap”. But, we must retain and control possession better more than anything. Having both McGinn and JJ in the side really hinders us in that respect, we only need one “action” CM in the side. And we have a wealth of attacking talent in front of midfield which can reduce the attacking responsibility of midfield and allow them to be more solid and focus on build up play. We need to stop being wasteful and stop losing possession so cheaply. I just strongly feel that we need a composed and solid base in midfield that is defensively strong and excellent in possession. That would unleash our attacking talent and allow them to fully express themselves… that way we could get both Coutinho (overall our best attacking player, esp in terms of scoring) and Buendia (our most creative player, best passer) in the side and give the CF a much better and more consistent supply of genuine goals scoring opportunities…. There would be no need for these players to drop deeper or search for the ball games if we address that midfield balance correctly… Maybe chance creation is more of a problem than being clinical… harder for the CF to be sharp, focussed and clinical if he only gets the very occasional and possibly more difficult chance in a game… a more consistent and higher quality supply ins only going to help… I'd have no problem playing with 2 holding midfielders and unleashing the remaining attackers and full backs to push forward, but looking at Gerrard's time at villa so far he's usually only used 1 holding player, either Luiz, Nakamba and Tim once but rarely 2 together apart from when Luiz has been pushed forward in a totally different role. I think Gerrard likes having an all action midfielders in the wider positions to cover the full backs. Personally I prefer a standard 4-3-3 with the attacking emphasis on the wide forwards and with a narrower midfield 3 but Gerrard's the man at the helm and it's up to him to secure success in the way he sees fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 If we don’t end up bringing in another midfielder, or the right kind, then I hope SG realises that Luiz has to play next to Kamara… starting with McGinn, JJ and Kamara is asking for trouble imo… Hopefully both parties (club and player) can realise it’s in our best interests to extend our relationship… I’d be delighted to see Luiz sign a new contract before our first PL game but suspect we will be waiting longer… maybe he wants to see if he will get to play in his preferred position and maybe the club want to see how he performs… we just can’t get any accurate info on the actual situation, a little frustrating… JJ is so good but still so young, he doesn’t need to be starting every game. I love watching him carry the ball and drive forward. Although, I do prefer him to McGinn. The pair of them should be competing and rotating for one spot imo… they should stay fresh and not burn out then either… Anway, I’m still hopeful, even expectant, on further activity but I don’t know whether we will bring in the right profile of player or not for midfield… If we strengthen intelligently, we can have a really good season. We need to wipe out our deficiencies… and not give the opposition an easy or obvious method to dominate or defeat us… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I think we massively overplay our midfield difficulties - which, in large part, came down to Luiz not being effective enough in the DM role. We've brought in Kamara to alleviate this. Anything else, I think we have a good enough selection of players to choose from. Naturally, if we can shift someone out and bring a better player in then I think we'd take that approach. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Its a strange league the Eridivise, while I take your point.....we have seen some cracking players make an impact in the Premier league. Sure… but there have been some massive failures too I struggle to forget Alfonso Alves It’s often the case and why you need good scouting… hard to predict who will thrive and who will falter… There have been some bargains/stars and duds from the likes of SPL too… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, david-avfc said: I'd have no problem playing with 2 holding midfielders and unleashing the remaining attackers and full backs to push forward, but looking at Gerrard's time at villa so far he's usually only used 1 holding player, either Luiz, Nakamba and Tim once but rarely 2 together apart from when Luiz has been pushed forward in a totally different role. I think Gerrard likes having an all action midfielders in the wider positions to cover the full backs. Personally I prefer a standard 4-3-3 with the attacking emphasis on the wide forwards and with a narrower midfield 3 but Gerrard's the man at the helm and it's up to him to secure success in the way he sees fit I don’t think you “have to” play with a double pivot or 2 behind a more attacking player if you have more than one defensive player in midfield. Like I said, there are players that are capable of playing a hybrid role nowadays and SG described Kamara in that way too. Or the player we sign can fulfil that role and BK can be the most defensive or deepest. If you want, you can still have the flat 3. As I explained earlier, if we have a stronger and more defensively capable midfield (that is also composed and excels in possession/passing), it allows our attackers to perform better and not have to drop deep. By “action” midfielder, I meant players that are more attacking and less capable defensively. Players that prioritise getting forward and taking risks (like losing the ball) rather than being composed, protect defence and prioritise keeping hold of the ball and not losing it cheaply. I’d rather our attackers take this risks and for our midfield to apply them with quality and consistent service. Because of the make up of our squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: I think we massively overplay our midfield difficulties - which, in large part, came down to Luiz not being effective enough in the DM role. We've brought in Kamara to alleviate this. Anything else, I think we have a good enough selection of players to choose from. Naturally, if we can shift someone out and bring a better player in then I think we'd take that approach. Think it was just as much if not more due to McGinn & Ramsey being a poor fit together and not allowing us to keep possession. The issues with Luiz started when we didn't have the ball. McGinn & Ramsey meant that was way too often. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Sure… but there have been some massive failures too I struggle to forget Alfonso Alves It’s often the case and why you need good scouting… hard to predict who will thrive and who will falter… There have been some bargains/stars and duds from the likes of SPL too… ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Just now, sne said: Think it was just as much if not more due to McGinn & Ramsey being a poor fit together and not allowing us to keep possession. The issues with Luiz started when we didn't have the ball. McGinn & Ramsey meant that was way too often. Maybe this is the case, and Luiz is better with keeping possession. I fail to believe that a professional footballer can't do that, though. Ramsey and McGinn were absolutely pivotal to us attacking. I wouldn't want to lose that edge in favour of passing the ball around in the back 2 thirds of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Maybe this is the case, and Luiz is better with keeping possession. I fail to believe that a professional footballer can't do that, though. Ramsey and McGinn were absolutely pivotal to us attacking. I wouldn't want to lose that edge in favour of passing the ball around in the back 2 thirds of the pitch. Wouldn't suggest that's what we should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I would like to see more athleticism in midfield....to help us get after opponents as opposed to standing off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Ramsey / McGinn, Kamara / Nakamba, Luiz / Sanson for me. I would say Luiz is good enough but doesn't want to be here (allegedly) and Sanson just isn't good enough / fit enough from what he's shown. I'd imagine we're waiting on one or both of them to be sold before bringing in their replacement. I don't want either of Ramsey or McGinn dropped but I just don't think that both should play in the same XI unless it's a rare occasion and/or against weak opposition. Aaron Ramsey has been released on a free and if his wages were realistic I'd like him as back-up on that right side. First choice though I have no idea. I'm looking forward to finding out who the club have chosen. Strikers - Watkins has a good record and Ings has an excellent record. We do not need to upgrade, especially with Davis not being sold and Archer not loaned out. We just need to make sure we're not messing around with our system to shoehorn them both in. Last season Ings struggled for fitness and a good run in the side, Watkins struggled massively with form (I'd go as far as to say he was struggling mentally with something, or just wasn't right mentally full stop. I hope he's seeing someone about it though and feels good going into this season). Shift deadwood + Luiz and/or Sanson for a fair price and bring in a genuine upgrade that offers something unique to Kamara, Nakamba and Ramsey and we'll be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, sne said: Wouldn't suggest that's what we should do. I think a lot of people want to push Luiz up the pitch alongside Ramsey whilst having "more possession". My gut feeling is that this would lead to more passes backwards into Kamara (thankfully, he seems to be a very good passer of the ball) rather than forward into Buendia/Coutinho/the channels. Luiz's effectiveness in possession is the short ball - which was very often backwards to defence or more sideways into Ramsey/McGinn who then progressed. Now obviously Luiz could play further forward - and, again, I don't believe that a professional footballer couldn't learn to do different roles - but he doesn't have the same forward-focus as the others. He'd be more 'useful' in a double pivot with Kamara but then we'd need to have Buendia playing and dropping back quite a bit to give a better link in the void between holding mids and attack (as only 1 guy there). In some ways, nice problems to have. But we do need to have a defined system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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