tomsky_11 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 51 minutes ago, duke313 said: They are below average according to that chart. The stat on the chart as I assume they've calculated it will favour players taking more advanced positions as both the progressive carries and passes stats exclude actions from the defending 40% of the pitch. Luiz in the role he's asked to do will be receiving the ball in deeper positions more often so it's likely that the kind of passes and carries that he might make and would otherwise qualify do not because of where he's positioned on the pitch. And that's before we get to the specifics of the role and the type of passes he's being asked to play, which might also skew the stat downwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, duke313 said: The chart shows that McGinn would be excellent in a double pivot along with someone like Phillips. Or someone like Kamara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, duke313 said: The chart shows that McGinn would be excellent in a double pivot along with someone like Phillips. I’ve though about this too and think there’s potential for it to work, McGinns progression comes from route one though and I would still rather we upgraded on him. He’s a great option off the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said: Oh and big caveat with this progressive actions per touches stats is that its dependent on the team's play style. Maybe also worth noting Luiz scored 6.84 in this metric in first season and 6.38 second season (so above or in line with average assuming it hasn't moved much) while also taking a greater % of his touches in the defending third of the pitch in both those season compared to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: God I love this guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, Keyblade said: God I love this guy. I can't get over the nonchalance and flow of it all, whenever I see it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Maybe also worth noting Luiz scored 6.84 in this metric in first season and 6.38 second season (so above or in line with average assuming it hasn't moved much) while also taking a greater % of his touches in the defending third of the pitch in both those season compared to this one. He's the one we want alongside Kamara, not McGinn Edit: or rather, in certain games we want Luiz, but against weaker opposition that dont press, then McGinn would be fine Edited June 30, 2022 by MrBlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I think we need to add that tactical flexibility of 4 3 2 1, 4 3 1 2 and 4 2 3 1. With the latter being almost a 4 / 6 defence attack split, but maybe Cash tucking into midfield to make it 2 3 5. So I really think we should keep Bert for this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, MrBlack said: He's the one we want alongside Kamara, not McGinn Edit: or rather, in certain games we want Luiz, but against weaker opposition that dont press, then McGinn would be fine McGinn is fine if he's not playing deep. His chance creation is very good and his tackling numbers are high so would be useful at winning ball higher up the pitch. So yes in the 8 role against weaker opposition or possibly an option in the 10 role against possession based team where he could maybe win high and start counter. Having the right player for the 6 role, ie Kamara, should allow him to play further forward more often in the 8 role anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 46 minutes ago, andym said: That's the McGinn conundrum, he's always trying to be all action, trying ambitious stuff and when he's on its highly effective. But when he's off the pace it can be horrendous; e.g. trying hollywood passes 30 yards from our goal after we've just been under the cosh for 5 minutes, and unsurprisingly seeing it come straight back resulting in more pressure. I believe it's because his fitness is poor. Thats why quite often he takes the option to smash it long towards Watkins. He's just too gassed to do anything else. I would have thought by now he would have developed the skill that Petrov had of buying a free kick to relieve pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Couldn't find the article itself but seems it was reported live on air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I think we need to add that tactical flexibility of 4 3 2 1, 4 3 1 2 and 4 2 3 1. With the latter being almost a 4 / 6 defence attack split, but maybe Cash tucking into midfield to make it 2 3 5. So I really think we should keep Bert for this Can't see us deviating too much too often from last season's set up. Think a 3-2-5 in attack seems likely with Kamara making up the 3, seems he's almost perfectly suited for this role. I think the remainder of the summer business will give an idea of whether there'll be more variation in the defensive set up, eg. changing to a 4-2-3-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Couldn't find the article itself but seems it was reported live on air. I thought us bidding for him was old news? It got rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: I thought us bidding for him was old news? It got rejected. I gathered that we will make an increased offer (think the original was 25m(?)), as reported last night in that image on CNN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Keyblade said: God I love this guy. Me too Hope he sticks around. Get & keep him fit and he’s a great option to have in the squad. Provided most of the highlights of his debut season for me… Here’s some more to enjoy We have a lot of quality in our squad, need to get the best out of them and add the right quality in the right areas to bring their games on even further… We’ve been so unbalanced, midfield is the key area… it’s where we’ve been weakest for far too long… enough with the hoofball and being wasteful in possession. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I believe it's because his fitness is poor. Thats why quite often he takes the option to smash it long towards Watkins. He's just too gassed to do anything else. I would have thought by now he would have developed the skill that Petrov had of buying a free kick to relieve pressure. This is were I see the benefit of tactical subs next season with 5 subs. If McGinn is knackered after 60-65 mins bring on someone else. Or indeed if we upgrade McGinn this window, bring him on with 25 mins to go and let him run his heart out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I think a lot of the Otavio noise is coming off this account. What’s interesting is she’s shared a tweet from April last year where she basically announced grealish to city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, IrishVilla10 said: I think a lot of the Otavio noise is coming off this account. What’s interesting is she’s shared a tweet from April last year where she basically announced grealish to city. Quite possibly, yeah. The fact it was mentioned live on CNN in Portugal would also add weight to the link--not saying it's credible for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Maybe also worth noting Luiz scored 6.84 in this metric in first season and 6.38 second season (so above or in line with average assuming it hasn't moved much) while also taking a greater % of his touches in the defending third of the pitch in both those season compared to this one. 1- Playing more in the defensive third doesn't necessarily make it harder to make progressive passes. In fact, some people argue that it actually makes it easier because you would presumably have more options to pass forward to than if you were playing further forward yourself. However, the way fbref calculates progressive passes means it ignores passes if it's from too far back so the effect is somewhat complicated. 2- I have a good feeling why Luiz had a higher metric in the first season with us. Mcginn was injured for large parts of that season meaning he naturally had to take on some of his responsibilities in progressing the ball forward. If so, it may be true that Luiz is capable of being more progressive, but he simply isn't instructed to be. Rather his role is more to play safer passes whilst the likes of Mcginn and Ramsey take more risks. Another reason why stats can be misleading, we don't definitively know what the specific roles these players were given. Edited June 30, 2022 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 Dude is probably full of shit tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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