Summer Transfer Window 2022

[PerryBarrPet]

1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said:

A whole host of teams above us in the standings have been plagued by inconsistency. Leicester, Tottenham, United just to name a few. All have better players but struggle to consistently perform. Good managers set up their teams to consistently perform. 

But yet they still don’t perform consistently. Leicester and Tottenham are struggling with inconsistency - United struggle to find form even with many players earning a fortune!

[paul514]

5 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Gerrard is probably still a pretty big draw but that could be short-lived. The pull factor of playing for a legendary midfielder will disappear if he doesn’t improve Villa before the summer.

I agree with this it will tarnish the proposition we make to players.

we need a cb, rb and DCM 

[david-avfc]

7 hours ago, allani said:

Well Brighton are not in that position by choice.  They can't sign players for £40 million so they have to try and find bargains elsewhere.  If it is a straight choice between a £50 million player who has proved they can compete in the PL compared to a £5 million player who might - the pressure on "bigger" clubs is to try and buy the "safe" option.  Also with lower expectations at Brighton there is also more time / less pressure to make an immediate impact.  Say Villa decide / fail to sign Bissouma in the summer and instead buy a youngster from the French / Italian second division that none of us have heard of.  Two indifferent games and half our fans would be writing the player off and slagging off the recruitment team.  We bought a whole load of good players from France a few seasons back and got rid of them all as failures - most of whom went on to play at a higher level.  Just look at how many people dismissed someone who was a starter for Juventus because they were not "good enough" to play for us.  Leicester are in Europe and that has a lot of pulling power.

Yes totally agree. Bissouma spent his first 2 seasons at Brighton as a squad player, just 17 and 15 starts respectively. Only last season  he became their first choice midfielder starting 35 games. They were able to take a long term approach with him but for us we need a player for the here and now. The problem we have is as we move up the food chain it gets harder and harder to compete.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I'm sure when Douglas Luiz is playing in the Champions League and above us for the rest of his career, you still won't be convinced on him either.

Love that mantra from him. Love it.

So I want to see more.

Shall we wait and see, if that happens, before I commit myself.

and if he does go, its because SG doesn't see him, as a part of his plans either.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, allani said:

VillaTalk will go into meltdown if that is the case.  It was bad enough when we were linked to a possible deal involving a Uruguayan international who was a regular starter for Juventus.  Can you imagine what will happen if we sign a 19 year old from Lecce that none of us have ever heard of.  Unfortunately most of us want / expect us to find a £60 million player for £1.50 from a European league who is SO good that they can automatically adjust to playing in the PL and at the same time fill a role that almost 99.9% of fans blame as being the position we've lacked for 15 years and that has continuously held us back from meeting our potential.  Our fans are not looking at potential success in 5 years time - we want almost instantaneous success.  I am the same.  The fans of at least 10-12 other English clubs are exactly the same.  I freely admit to saying that JJ should have been sent out on loan this season to develop and I now look like an idiot as he has potentially jumped to being the top of my midfield 3 list.  JJ had the benefit of being "one of our own" and enough people on here having seen him in the junior teams to at least say "he'll make it".  But it took him a good 30-35 matches to convince most people.  A £5m signing from a lower league in France / Italy / Spain / Germany just will not get that same adjustment time in a role that we all see as being so critical.  Cases in point - Ings (joint second top scorer in the PL over the past 2 seasons, written off by many before he even kicked a ball for us as "not being what we need"), Sanson (CL player from France dismissed as not good enough), Bertie (CL player / international dismissed as too inconsistent), AEG / Trez are solid players from the likes of the Dutch / Belgian league but not good enough for where we want to be.  This "unknown exceptional talent for no money" just does not exist.  For every player that you identify to say that isn't true there will be 50 or 100 players of a similar positions / stature who were bought by other clubs at a similar time for the same amount of money that did not work.  The idea that we can sign an unknown prospect who will suddenly transform us into a Top 8 team is poppycock.  Brighton don't seriously expect to finish in the Top 8.  Realistically they are happy to be in the PL.  So if they sign someone for £5m who doesn't work out and they avoid relegation then they are (mainly) happy.  Some Villa fans are in meltdown about this season when we are realistically 8 points from safety with 15 matches left of the season, 2 points off 10th with a game in hand (although Leicester have an extra game in hand), 10 points clear of the relegation zone (with a game in hand).  If we ONLY sign 4 unproven talents from overseas in the summer, they will have about 3 matches to prove the rest of the world wrong (at most) before fans start calling for the head of the manager, Lange or the board.  Seriously, this is the best we have been run for probably 40 / 50 seasons and many people are incredibly vocal and negative.  We could sign Mason Mount tomorrow and half this message board would be dismissing it as a mistake.

I agree, with all that.....but the trap, I think some of us fall in to is balance.

as an E.G Mason Mount may not transform us, because we need a different type of player, but he is still a fine player.....its all about horses for courses......West Ham are no better than us individually, but they have variety, in terms of attributes and they are more rounded as a team, which subsequently helps make them more consistent.

Our problems have not been signing bad players, its been signing too many the same.....All those years ago Saunders and Cloughy had balance in their teams....some were journeymen, but they both built teams with talent and functionality.....who both won the coveted prize, in Europe.

I know football has changed....but Look at Man city, they have balance....mahrez is different to Rodrigo, Zinchenko is different to Sterling, De bruyne is not the same as gundogan.....and so on.....Look I know City have a lot more going on too, but my point is you must have a side who compliment each other, through diversity....and then you blend them and create cohesion.

We have recently presided over umpteen wingers in the squad, and just 1 dedicated CDM.....That to me is imbalance.....we then have to play players out of their natural position to compensate.

The recruitment for me...does need criticism, but not for the reasons you suggest......I am talking over successive seasons, not just Johan Lange.

Steven Gerrard, is now reported as saying, this week.....we need more running,  tackling and fight.....but my point is......have we really signed players in recent times with that focus in mind.....I am not so sure, we have.

I don't know enough about what happens at B6.....but if we are just signing players, because they are headlines or pose a good profit if we sell them, those things alone, I will be disappointed......because we want players who are going to make the team better, and that includes defensive minded souls, who do not necessarily grab the headlines.....We are currently struggling against teams who have lesser players than us on paper....because they are doing the things that SG has reportedly called for this week, from our players.

We need some functional or agricultural players, call them what you will.....to go alongside the fine talent, we already have.

Edited February 17, 2022 by TRO

[Xela]

I'm shifting my attitude on a few things. Its all very well buying young players to develop etc, but every year we get further behind the top 4/6.

I think we should go for it - get proven quality in now. Coutinho is a prime example - a winner and a Champions League quality player. Get 4 or 5 of his ilk in. Yes, they're going to be older and on big wages, but they'll raise the profile of the club massively. We'll still have the Academy working wonders but we need to do something now before it gets out of our reach. 

[paul514]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree, with all that.....but the trap, I think some of us fall in to is balance.

as an E.G Mason Mount may not transform us, because we need a different type of player, but he is still a fine player.....its all about horses for courses......West Ham are no better than us individually, but they have variety, in terms of attributes and they are more rounded as a team, which subsequently helps make them more consistent.

Our problems have not been signing bad players, its been signing too many the same.....All those years ago Saunders and Cloughy had balance in their teams....some were journeymen, but they both built teams with talent and functionality.....who both won the coveted prize, in Europe.

I know football has changed....but Look at Man city, they have balance....mahrez is different to Rodrigo, Zinchenko is different to Sterling, De bruyne is not the same as gundogan.....and so on.....Look I know City have a lot more going on too, but my point is you must have a side who compliment each other, through diversity....and then you blend them and create cohesion.

We have recently presided over umpteen wingers in the squad, and just 1 dedicated CDM.....That to me is imbalance.....we then have to play players out of their natural position to compensate.

The recruitment for me...does need criticism, but not for the reasons you suggest......I am talking over successive seasons, not just Johan Lange.

Steven Gerrard, is now reported as saying, this week.....we need more running,  tackling and fight.....but my point is......have we really signed players in recent times with that focus in mind.....I am not so sure, we have.

I don't know enough about what happens at B6.....but if we are just signing players, because they are headlines or pose a good profit if we sell them, those things alone, I will be disappointed......because we want players who are going to make the team better, and that includes defensive minded souls, who do not necessarily grab the headlines.....We are currently struggling against teams who have lesser players than us on paper....because they are doing the things that SG has reportedly called for this week, from our players.

We need some functional or agricultural players, call them what you will.....to go alongside the fine talent, we already have.

We don’t have a crazy amount of wide forward once AEG and Trez have been shipped out.

I agree on the DCM point, I’d be willing to sacrifice someone like McGinn to bring in two very high quality DCM’s

i still believe we need a very high quality centre back and a right back.

[paul514]

9 minutes ago, Xela said:

I'm shifting my attitude on a few things. Its all very well buying young players to develop etc, but every year we get further behind the top 4/6.

I think we should go for it - get proven quality in now. Coutinho is a prime example - a winner and a Champions League quality player. Get 4 or 5 of his ilk in. Yes, they're going to be older and on big wages, but they'll raise the profile of the club massively. We'll still have the Academy working wonders but we need to do something now before it gets out of our reach. 

We will see if it works wonders in the next few years…..

we assume it will as apparently high quality youngsters and coaches have been brought in.

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, Xela said:

I'm shifting my attitude on a few things. Its all very well buying young players to develop etc, but every year we get further behind the top 4/6.

I think we should go for it - get proven quality in now. Coutinho is a prime example - a winner and a Champions League quality player. Get 4 or 5 of his ilk in. Yes, they're going to be older and on big wages, but they'll raise the profile of the club massively. We'll still have the Academy working wonders but we need to do something now before it gets out of our reach. 

its not, young or old or intermediate....its about buying players, who are going to give us something.....its all about the blend........EG a good whisky is all about varying attributes, put together to create the final piece.....too many of the same attributes will ruin the blend....A football team of 11 is the same.

Right now, we need a Gareth Barry type to help control the middle......but we keep buying creative talent, which is quite hard to criticise, because we are all so fond of it, me included.....but its not what will make the team function, properly.

We need functional players to go WITH the talent...we have an abundance of talent.

Edited February 17, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, paul514 said:

We don’t have a crazy amount of wide forward once AEG and Trez have been shipped out.

I agree on the DCM point, I’d be willing to sacrifice someone like McGinn to bring in two very high quality DCM’s

i still believe we need a very high quality centre back and a right back.

I'm not talking about just the last 3 months Paul.....I'm talking about for some time.

but my concern is, so far, we don't seem to be learning.

Coutinho and Digne are great players, but in terms of our soft underbelly.....are they the players to fix that?

I am not saying, we shouldn't have signed them....they are such good opportunities......but we have to start strengthening the team, where we most need it.

Edited February 17, 2022 by TRO

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

I'm not talking about just the last 3 months Paul.....I'm talking about for some time.

but my concern is, so far, we don't seem to be learning.

Coutinho and Digne are great players, but in terms of our soft underbelly.....are they the players to fix that?

I am not saying, we shouldn't have signed them....they are such good opportunities......but we have to start strengthening the team, where we most need it.

Yep our spine is weak.  Of the spine you class of GK, CB, DCM, Striker…I’m only sure of the GK in our spine at the moment of real quality.

Konsa and Mings are brilliant individually and work well together but if we are serious of top level then we need one of them to play along side a top quality CB.  In midfield we have loads of great midfielders but not the spine midfielder of real quality.  Then striker, well that discussion has been done to death in other threads.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yep our spine is weak.  Of the spine you class of GK, CB, DCM, Striker…I’m only sure of the GK in our spine at the moment of real quality.

Konsa and Mings are brilliant individually and work well together but if we are serious of top level then we need one of them to play along side a top quality CB.  In midfield we have loads of great midfielders but not the spine midfielder of real quality.  Then striker, well that discussion has been done to death in other threads.

I agree Nick

 

[paul514]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

Yep our spine is weak.  Of the spine you class of GK, CB, DCM, Striker…I’m only sure of the GK in our spine at the moment of real quality.

Konsa and Mings are brilliant individually and work well together but if we are serious of top level then we need one of them to play along side a top quality CB.  In midfield we have loads of great midfielders but not the spine midfielder of real quality.  Then striker, well that discussion has been done to death in other threads.

Pretty much I think we need the same on the right side of defence that we have on the left.

A centre back to cut out the errors and dominate and at least one DCM 

[AvonVillain]

3 hours ago, Xela said:

I'm shifting my attitude on a few things. Its all very well buying young players to develop etc, but every year we get further behind the top 4/6.

I think we should go for it - get proven quality in now. Coutinho is a prime example - a winner and a Champions League quality player. Get 4 or 5 of his ilk in. Yes, they're going to be older and on big wages, but they'll raise the profile of the club massively. We'll still have the Academy working wonders but we need to do something now before it gets out of our reach. 

We already have academy players looking to leave/run down their contracts due to lack of first team opportunity, and the quality ahead of them are not of the standard you propose we buy. If we go down the route suggested, mothball the academy now, or install a permanent viewing platform for German clubs doing things properly to hoover them all up like Jacob Ramsey, accidentally progressing here instead of being stifled by the likes of big-money-signing James Ward Prowse.

[VillaParkAvenue]

3 hours ago, Xela said:

I'm shifting my attitude on a few things. Its all very well buying young players to develop etc, but every year we get further behind the top 4/6.

I think we should go for it - get proven quality in now. Coutinho is a prime example - a winner and a Champions League quality player. Get 4 or 5 of his ilk in. Yes, they're going to be older and on big wages, but they'll raise the profile of the club massively. We'll still have the Academy working wonders but we need to do something now before it gets out of our reach. 

If they’re still that good, they’re unlikely to come here - Coutinho was an exception as Gerrard’s old teammate.

Those on that level who came would be past their prime, like when Everton signed James Rodriguez. Bringing in washed players like Aubameyang or Aaron Ramsey on huge wages would kill the club quickly.

[paul514]

28 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

We already have academy players looking to leave/run down their contracts due to lack of first team opportunity, and the quality ahead of them are not of the standard you propose we buy. If we go down the route suggested, mothball the academy now, or install a permanent viewing platform for German clubs doing things properly to hoover them all up like Jacob Ramsey, accidentally progressing here instead of being stifled by the likes of big-money-signing James Ward Prowse.

So your solution is?

I infer from what you have wrote is just play the talented kids and hop that works?

[allani]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree, with all that.....but the trap, I think some of us fall in to is balance.

as an E.G Mason Mount may not transform us, because we need a different type of player, but he is still a fine player.....its all about horses for courses......West Ham are no better than us individually, but they have variety, in terms of attributes and they are more rounded as a team, which subsequently helps make them more consistent.

Our problems have not been signing bad players, its been signing too many the same.....All those years ago Saunders and Cloughy had balance in their teams....some were journeymen, but they both built teams with talent and functionality.....who both won the coveted prize, in Europe.

I know football has changed....but Look at Man city, they have balance....mahrez is different to Rodrigo, Zinchenko is different to Sterling, De bruyne is not the same as gundogan.....and so on.....Look I know City have a lot more going on too, but my point is you must have a side who compliment each other, through diversity....and then you blend them and create cohesion.

We have recently presided over umpteen wingers in the squad, and just 1 dedicated CDM.....That to me is imbalance.....we then have to play players out of their natural position to compensate.

The recruitment for me...does need criticism, but not for the reasons you suggest......I am talking over successive seasons, not just Johan Lange.

Steven Gerrard, is now reported as saying, this week.....we need more running,  tackling and fight.....but my point is......have we really signed players in recent times with that focus in mind.....I am not so sure, we have.

I don't know enough about what happens at B6.....but if we are just signing players, because they are headlines or pose a good profit if we sell them, those things alone, I will be disappointed......because we want players who are going to make the team better, and that includes defensive minded souls, who do not necessarily grab the headlines.....We are currently struggling against teams who have lesser players than us on paper....because they are doing the things that SG has reportedly called for this week, from our players.

We need some functional or agricultural players, call them what you will.....to go alongside the fine talent, we already have.

I do tend to agree with most of this too.  I am not sure if the blame with our imbalance is with the recruitment team or with the manager / coaches.  I do think that Smith believed that Luiz and McGinn were good enough to control the middle of the park.  I don't think the balance was actually far off in terms of personnel apart from the fact that (a) I don't think that Luiz and McGinn as a partnership were strong enough to control the middle of the park when we are under pressure, (b) we were far, far, far too reliant on one player and (c) our wide players weren't on he whole good enough but were supposed to be the fulcrum of our creative outlet so we ended up with too many and (d) we were too focused on attacking down the left (partly related to issue (b) and partly because Ollie tends to drift left anyway).

I think Smith wanted to address (d) in the summer with the purchase of Bailey  and (b) by having Emi2 as a more advance central midfielder - so we had three creative prongs behind Ollie.  Obviously that strategy was thrown into disarray by the departure of Jack.  However, despite that I think that with Emi2, Coutinho and JJ our attacking intent remains much better balanced.  I think that he believed that the centre midfield would be strengthened with Emi2 playing in front of Luiz and McGinn.  But I think that is because he believed that both were better defensively than they actually are (particularly the latter).

I think it is clear that Gerrard does want to address the midfield issue (a) but that the players he wanted were not attainable in January.  I would be very surprised if we don't make a really big effort buy one, or possibly two, midfield players in the summer.  I do think that Coutinho was the kind of signing that we / he could not walk away from and I think it improved us massively.  We may not reap the full benefit this season but I think a Coutinho / Emi2 partnership is what really could take us to the next level.  Of course the fact that Gerrard tends to play the 2 "support" attackers narrower probably means that (c) has potentially become more of an issue.  For various reasons we have yet to see whether Bailey and Bertie can perform for us in that slightly narrower role when either Emi2 or Coutinho are out.  If they can't then one or both may need to leave.

I don't think we will sign the type of functional / agricultural player that you allude to.  From the links so far I think Gerrard wants rounded midfielders who are as good on the ball as they are off it.  I don't know if this is correct in terms of actual playing stats but I think Gerrard looks at the Liverpool midfield that he was in - Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano.  Mascherano tended to play deeper but he was far from just a defensive player.  I think that if you look at something like a JJ, Bentancur and Bissouma - it isn't miles off in terms of relative strengths / weaknesses.  None are a classic DCM but they all have pretty good defensive stats - but I think their skills in retention and progression are just as important. 

Our trouble at the moment is that when we are under pressure, Luiz and McGinn are not good enough to retain possession and link up with our creative front players - as a result we tend to start just hitting long balls up in the vague direction and wonder why it keeps coming back at us.  When we are in control suddenly they both look pretty decent.  Which is why we end up with games like Man Utd and Leeds where we look absolute **** one minute and then 15 minutes later look like world beaters (or vice versa).  I think we probably do win enough tackles and make enough interceptions.  So winning the ball back is not the issue.  It is commanding the ball in the face of opponents pressing us hard and fast in our own half that is the problem.  Which is kind of why I don't think (for all the negativity from the last performance and a half) we are THAT far off.

[allani]

51 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Pretty much I think we need the same on the right side of defence that we have on the left.

A centre back to cut out the errors and dominate and at least one DCM 

Agreed.  A top CB and a "deeper" CM are the priority.   Then a more "progressive" right back.  I can actually see us wanting to buy 2 CMs as I am beginning to think that neither McGinn nor Luiz are the solution as the 3rd CM because they involve the new CM being really top class to cover for their weaknesses.  However, that very much depends on whether Ollie or Ings find some form over the rest of the season because it they don't then a striker starts to become really critical and will move above the 2nd CM in the priority list.

2 players will make us a good team.  3 players will make us a very good team.  4 (with either an extra CM or a ST) put us in with a real shot of challenging.

[paul514]

18 minutes ago, allani said:

I do tend to agree with most of this too.  I am not sure if the blame with our imbalance is with the recruitment team or with the manager / coaches.  I do think that Smith believed that Luiz and McGinn were good enough to control the middle of the park.  I don't think the balance was actually far off in terms of personnel apart from the fact that (a) I don't think that Luiz and McGinn as a partnership were strong enough to control the middle of the park when we are under pressure, (b) we were far, far, far too reliant on one player and (c) our wide players weren't on he whole good enough but were supposed to be the fulcrum of our creative outlet so we ended up with too many and (d) we were too focused on attacking down the left (partly related to issue (b) and partly because Ollie tends to drift left anyway).

I think Smith wanted to address (d) in the summer with the purchase of Bailey  and (b) by having Emi2 as a more advance central midfielder - so we had three creative prongs behind Ollie.  Obviously that strategy was thrown into disarray by the departure of Jack.  However, despite that I think that with Emi2, Coutinho and JJ our attacking intent remains much better balanced.  I think that he believed that the centre midfield would be strengthened with Emi2 playing in front of Luiz and McGinn.  But I think that is because he believed that both were better defensively than they actually are (particularly the latter).

I think it is clear that Gerrard does want to address the midfield issue (a) but that the players he wanted were not attainable in January.  I would be very surprised if we don't make a really big effort buy one, or possibly two, midfield players in the summer.  I do think that Coutinho was the kind of signing that we / he could not walk away from and I think it improved us massively.  We may not reap the full benefit this season but I think a Coutinho / Emi2 partnership is what really could take us to the next level.  Of course the fact that Gerrard tends to play the 2 "support" attackers narrower probably means that (c) has potentially become more of an issue.  For various reasons we have yet to see whether Bailey and Bertie can perform for us in that slightly narrower role when either Emi2 or Coutinho are out.  If they can't then one or both may need to leave.

I don't think we will sign the type of functional / agricultural player that you allude to.  From the links so far I think Gerrard wants rounded midfielders who are as good on the ball as they are off it.  I don't know if this is correct in terms of actual playing stats but I think Gerrard looks at the Liverpool midfield that he was in - Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano.  Mascherano tended to play deeper but he was far from just a defensive player.  I think that if you look at something like a JJ, Bentancur and Bissouma - it isn't miles off in terms of relative strengths / weaknesses.  None are a classic DCM but they all have pretty good defensive stats - but I think their skills in retention and progression are just as important. 

Our trouble at the moment is that when we are under pressure, Luiz and McGinn are not good enough to retain possession and link up with our creative front players - as a result we tend to start just hitting long balls up in the vague direction and wonder why it keeps coming back at us.  When we are in control suddenly they both look pretty decent.  Which is why we end up with games like Man Utd and Leeds where we look absolute **** one minute and then 15 minutes later look like world beaters (or vice versa).  I think we probably do win enough tackles and make enough interceptions.  So winning the ball back is not the issue.  It is commanding the ball in the face of opponents pressing us hard and fast in our own half that is the problem.  Which is kind of why I don't think (for all the negativity from the last performance and a half) we are THAT far off.

I'd back all 4 of our current wide players to be good enough.

 

[allani]

Just now, paul514 said:

I'd back all 4 of our current wide players to be good enough.

 

Me too.  I think having Coutinho, Bailey, Emi2 and Bertie as options behind the main striker is a pretty awesome combination.  They each offer something slightly different and yet none would represent a massive change in approach when the come on / miss out.  I do think that Emi2 does more defensively and in recent matches we've struggled when he goes off.  But if we recruit as well in the middle of the park hopefully that will not be a major issue going forward.