Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Brighton

[Zatman]

50 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

I think people who use these lazy terms like “novice” and “rookie” to describe Gerrard are overlooking the wealth of experience he brings with his coaching team, one that has worked together successfully for three years at another club.

Sticking to facts not tropes, could you highlight any aspects of Saturday’s performance that illustrated this “novice” status?

We didn't test a rookie goalkeeper until about the 80th minute. Should have been pressured from the start

It was a good result and start but Saturday wasn't a great performance 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Zatman

[Spoony]

5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I noticed a number of people gave Gerrard an 'Average' review in the voting. I would love to know what he could have done to improve from 'Average'. And if that was an average performance I really can't wait to see a 'Good' performance by him

Exactly. Had like a week at best to implement new tactics and a new philosophy and he probably doesn’t even know all of the players’ names yet. And he got a victory against a tough Brighton team after making game-changing subs. But sure, that’s not “good” to a Villa fan. 

[jacketspuds]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We didn't test a rookie goalkeeper until about the 80th minute. Should have been pressured from the start

It was a good result and start but Saturday wasn't a great performance 

That's weird as I thought Cash had a header in the 12th minute that tested the keeper, and didn't Mings have a header just after half-time that would have gone in had it not been for a very good save?

I agree though that it wasn't a "great" performance, and I have no doubt that Gerrard knows this.

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I noticed a number of people gave Gerrard an 'Average' review in the voting. I would love to know what he could have done to improve from 'Average'. And if that was an average performance I really can't wait to see a 'Good' performance by him

I did - I do feel that I was perhaps being a little harsh, but my immediate reaction was that the formation and team selection he put out was pretty much exactly the same as we'd seen this season, so nothing new, and the performance we saw was basically what we knew the players were capable of already based on last season. The increased performance levels could've been a result of them snapping back to reality having had their previous manager, who they all seemed to like/respect, being sacked. 

This is all very much Devil's advocate, I'll admit, but the new team have only had a week to work with the players and the new manager bounce is often expected.

As I posted in this thread earlier, it's very early days and far too soon to judge the new manager and his team either way but it was a good start. 

 

[briny_ear]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We didn't test a rookie goalkeeper until about the 80th minute. Should have been pressured from the start

Lol, think we did a bit more than “test” him after 80 minutes!

You must have dozed off earlier for saves from Matty Cash 12 minutes, Mings 40 minutes, Mings 47 minutes.

If that’s the best effort for the prosecution of “rookie” Steven Gerrard, I’ll rest my case.

[Peter Griffin]

17 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We didn't test a rookie goalkeeper until about the 80th minute. Should have been pressured from the start

It was a good result and start but Saturday wasn't a great performance 

I understand your point but that may have been a little high risk.. With so little prep time and the clear issues in defence it may have been wise to let the shape of the team bed in a little and make sure we had our defensive setup as we wanted it. We did start very brightly but then toned it back a little after about 10 mins. We will all have different views but to me the primary objective on Saturday would have been a clean sheet. Then, when we were comfortable we could get that we could press a little higher

Edited November 22, 2021 by Peter Griffin
Fixed a typo

[gwi1890]

24 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We didn't test a rookie goalkeeper until about the 80th minute. Should have been pressured from the start

It was a good result and start but Saturday wasn't a great performance 

It was 10 times better than the last 5 games

[bannedfromHandV]

We were definitely more solid overall and in defending set pieces, whether this is some magical coaching or just players concentrating more under a new manager in his first game time will tell.

[Zatman]

39 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

That's weird as I thought Cash had a header in the 12th minute that tested the keeper, and didn't Mings have a header just after half-time that would have gone in had it not been for a very good save?

I agree though that it wasn't a "great" performance, and I have no doubt that Gerrard knows this.

Cash was straight at him, but the fact that was our defenders so not exactly clear cut chances for our forwards. Its only game one we go again

[Philosopher]

All in all a workman like performance. Brighton did have 2 very good chances, we also had a couple of good chances before we scored. I felt up until Watkins scored Brighton were slightly shading it. But after Ollie scored we carved out a few more chances thanks to Brighton pushing for a goal.

This was more like the Villa of last season. 

We still haven't seen our best line up. We aren't anywhere near how Gerrard would like us to play. He has steadied the ship, and injected some hunger into the team. So solid C+ to start.

Brighton still look toothless, while Maupay would have helped, that's more to do with how he pisses off our players, and annoys our defenders, than his actual ability. 

Gave Mings MotM as he scored, lead the team well, and keep a clean sheet. Ollie and Martinez honourable mentions as Ollie scored a lovely goal when we looked to be fading, and Martinez made a couple of crucial stops.

[NeilS]

I think we need to bear in mind that we were coming off the back of five straight defeats in which conceded early goals in the last three defeats. Personally I am happy we kept it as tight as possible and didn't go gung ho after Brighton early on, and risk conceding early again. Those goals against in the first ten minutes have been a killer for us during our bad run in October, and an early goal against this weekend and I think the result could easily have been very different. The players are lacking confidence at the moment, and baby steps were required to stop the rot first and foremost. To be honest, If offered I would have taken a draw before kick off for those reasons, so I am pretty happy we have come away with three points. We now need to build on this result and try to pick up more points in a few of the upcoming fixtures (which are all difficult in my book).

[nick76]

Why are there talks about Potter on this thread now? Bizarre

Cant remember what I put for manager performance. As I’ve said I can’t take too much from the game in terms of Gerrard.  He’s only had a couple of days with the international players and 5 days with the rest.

We got a much needed win.  

I’m not sure how anybody can be getting analytical based on one game, that is a new managers first game which always comes with positive and negatives from the ‘new manager bounce’ to players over trying to get the managers eye and messing up.  

Then you still have the players subconsciously doing what they have been trained by Smiths coaching team (not giving Smith the credit for the win before somebody suggests that) over the last couple of years, that doesn’t change quickly.

Plus Brighton just passed across their back line for half the game for no apparent reason.

The game could’ve gone either way results wise for the first 84 minutes.  Subs made a difference, bravo to Gerrard on that.  Is he tactically brilliant like that normally (not according to the Rangers fans) but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he won the game by that move(s) and over the coming months we’ll see if he is or isn’t.

Would Smith have won that game? Would Potter? Who cares, they aren’t our manager now.

As for Gerrard, it’s great that he got his first win and at home.  He needs to continue to back this up but I think, back to the original point, there are too many non-usual factors to take anything analytical from this one game.  Obviously those who wanted Gerrard will be positive of the Gerrard impact and those who are the fence or negative will be less so.  For me, it’s too early to even think about it, I’m just delighted with a win.

[Indigo]

Disagree that the tactics or "philosophy" were the same as we've already seen. There weren't wholesale changes, but you can't expect the wheel to be reinvented in a week and to be honest I don't think Gerrard and co's general ideals will be hugely different to Smith's anyway, but there were noticable tweaks all the same that tallied up with what those more familiar with Gerrard's Rangers said how they tended to play.

The wide players in Watkins and Buendia were tucked into more of a wide forward shape than that of wingers (it was described as more or a 4-3-2-1 than a 4-3-3 at Rangers), particularly when out of position and pressing to squeeze the middle of the pitch and force them out wide to limit shooting opportunities. It looked similar to clips I'd seen of how Rangers had played against sides in Europe.

On the ball there's still work to be done but you could see some of the new ideas coming into play. One thing I noticed when watching that I saw others on social media picked up on was clear through average positions was how much the 8s picked up wide positions to assist in the build up play and allow more of the play to go through the full backs by allowing them to push on. Ramsey in particular was picking up the ball in a left back position much of the time and providing a different kind of out ball from the back, which is the kind of thing that enabled Mings' passing to look so much crisper in the space of a couple of weeks as he was actually having options made available to him.

Not to say it was some flawless display and it's indicative of how successful this appointment would be, he still has a lot of convincing to do and the influence of intangible stuff like the "new manager bounce" etc can't be ignored either. Still and all though you could notice some tweaks in game plan being made and it was encouraging to wee it both be carried out by the players and bear fruit, especially against a side in Brighton who despite in my opinion being thoroughly unimpressive are clearly difficult to beat if nothing else.

[sheepyvillian]

13 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Do they, or is it an issue with coaching? 

We obviously have our issues and areas in which we need to improve, but I think it remains to be seen whether they can play a style of football that the previous manager professed to want from them but never seemed totally committed to implementing. I don't think every player in a possession based side has to be Xavi either. 

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying I don't buy the logic that this is a departure. 

Agree, any professional footballer worth his salt, should be able to pass and move. I was taught that in primary school. 

[thunderball]

 

[Pelle]

A much needed win for so many reasons, but first and foremost to stop the rot. To gain some confidence, keep the distance to the bottom 3. Those were the most important and obvious reasons for a win. A draw would've been good for stopping the losing streak, but it wouldn't help us keeping the distance as well, and it wouldn't gain as much confidence.

Also rather important for Gerrard to start with a win. The sacking of DS was among some fans, me included, a bit controversial and didn't sit well, so to keep some of them calm and hopefull that it might've been for the best after all. We need to be on the same side now.

The game itself looked pretty much as I expected, if anything it looked better. Most of the players looked like they believed again, they didn't hang with their heads, Mings (my MOTM), McGinn and Emi showed leadership, which was essential. 

Now we need to build on the confidence we gained, because we have a decent squad. New players still trying to reach their form. I have no doubts about Buendia but he's not started well. But I'm sure he will turn out a good signing. Petrov wasn't exactly shining his first 6 months either. Bailey seems like a player that will be up and down. But he hasn't played very much either. I'm not worried.

Next stop palace. Not an easy game, but winnable.

[roonst83]

2 hours ago, MrBlack said:

This is not a coincidence. Gerrard's not the messiah, and the players are the same people that Smith was playing, but whatever they were told worked for them this time.

You could argue even if Dean had said the exact same things to them, that the result wouldn't have been the same. A new manager invites new pressure on players for their positions. They all looked to be playing for their places. That probably wouldn't have been the case under Smith.

Agree with this.

[MWARLEY2]

37 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Disagree that the tactics or "philosophy" were the same as we've already seen. There weren't wholesale changes, but you can't expect the wheel to be reinvented in a week and to be honest I don't think Gerrard and co's general ideals will be hugely different to Smith's anyway, but there were noticable tweaks all the same that tallied up with what those more familiar with Gerrard's Rangers said how they tended to play.

The wide players in Watkins and Buendia were tucked into more of a wide forward shape than that of wingers (it was described as more or a 4-3-2-1 than a 4-3-3 at Rangers), particularly when out of position and pressing to squeeze the middle of the pitch and force them out wide to limit shooting opportunities. It looked similar to clips I'd seen of how Rangers had played against sides in Europe.

On the ball there's still work to be done but you could see some of the new ideas coming into play. One thing I noticed when watching that I saw others on social media picked up on was clear through average positions was how much the 8s picked up wide positions to assist in the build up play and allow more of the play to go through the full backs by allowing them to push on. Ramsey in particular was picking up the ball in a left back position much of the time and providing a different kind of out ball from the back, which is the kind of thing that enabled Mings' passing to look so much crisper in the space of a couple of weeks as he was actually having options made available to him.

Not to say it was some flawless display and it's indicative of how successful this appointment would be, he still has a lot of convincing to do and the influence of intangible stuff like the "new manager bounce" etc can't be ignored either. Still and all though you could notice some tweaks in game plan being made and it was encouraging to wee it both be carried out by the players and bear fruit, especially against a side in Brighton who despite in my opinion being thoroughly unimpressive are clearly difficult to beat if nothing else.

Heres one simple stat. x G of 0.6 for Brighton . Thats the second lowest they've had all season from 64 percent of the possession. This shows that what we focussed on was not being hard to beat and getting everyone behind the ball, but by not showing naivety and playing toe to toe. I hated that from Smith. Unless you are in the top 3 you simply cannot do it as Arsenal proved this weekend. So we tightened up in the right places,   let them have the ball in the right places and then were very aggressive when the ball got into places we didnt want it to. Superb first performance under Gerrard that stops the rot and shows that there is a team here that can be coached . 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

If you are comparing Gerrard's performance to last year's results as opposed to this year's and he gets an 'Average' as it was the same tactics and players does that mean that Deano was only 'Average' last year when he was winning? I like the fact you are setting the bar high for our managers but I think it may be a little too high 

We've also got the new manager bounce to factor into that - which Deano didn't have at the time. 

I've already stated that perhaps I was being a bit harsh with average, so maybe get your arguments elsewhere today? 

[TRO]

16 hours ago, Tayls said:

I don’t doubt that. Been a long time coming! 

I know not a lot would have changed in the past week or so, however I do think 37% possession at home, to Brighton, is still disappointing though. I’d have thought that even if we had Smith at the helm and we we were in a period of playing well. 

I agree....but I am sure that will change.