Steven Gerrard

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

 

Gerrard left a strong squad for the next manager. Maybe the same will happen at Villa. 

[Jas10]

 

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

 

Like when you're chasing a game in PES and you just move everyone up:

[Jas10]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Like when you're chasing a game in PES and you just move everyone up:

Well he does love to empty and bypass the midfield doesn’t he?

[Jas10]

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Gerrard left a strong squad for the next manager. Maybe the same will happen at Villa. 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Gerrard left a strong squad for the next manager. Maybe the same will happen at Villa. 

The initial comment left me having to be petty, and asking about Thomas Frank at Brentford then?

See i don't mind the proper debates and all that.

It's the eliminating of other factors just to strengthen a narrative I don't like.

I give all our managers credit for the positives they brought, regardless of their overall tenures with us.

Even if it's just a player or two they signed, etc. There is often a foundation which another Manager could use and improve on.

Edited August 24, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Jas10]

 

[Steero113]

9 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I would guess Ferguson, Klopp, possibly Pochettino… arguably Dyche at Burnley depending on how you calculate it. If we ignore the Championship, then Smith’s second PL season was a big improvement. It definitely does happen, but it’s not the norm.

Ironically it took 3 seasons for Fergie to get going, and we all know the famous moment that saved his job at United. 

[Zatman]

backed by Mr Aston Villa, 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

considering he left 8 months ago its a lot. The new manager has been able to work with the new players and get to the Champions League and not lose to Ferencvaros

On Saturday we started with 2 players that he inherited and he makes them look like strangers

Don't get me wrong Zat, obviously GVB is doing a great job.

However there is 100 percent the argument that, the same way a single Manager can build their squad season on season, another Manager can also build on a " good " foundation another Manager had built.

I know how's it's going here with him, but similarly to everything else, it doesn't mean he ain't never done anything good ffs or needs to be discredited for everything he touches.

As I said earlier, it's as easy an argument to throw at Dean Smith with Thomas Frank, but it's not necessarily a fair one.

Edited August 24, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[viivvaa66]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Gabby is without doubt the worst if not one of the worst representations of a club in the media, especially talksport

I loved Gabby as a player. We have all see the video clip with him and Ashley Young, so we know he isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer to put it nicely. But maybe he isn’t that bad, compared to the ones that pays him money to talk and give his opinion on anything.

 

So when Gabby says that Gerrard should be given time, it is properly best to sack Gerrard.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, nick76 said:

No, I keep saying it’s mostly/mainly coaching, whereas your argument for sometime has focused on anything that isn’t Gerrard’s coaching and deflecting to any fault but Gerrard, that’s all.  

You’ve always believed in Gerrard and backed him to the hilt and beyond, and I’ve mostly not been convinced apart from a short time after the first handful of games.  Maybe that’s why we disagree but this coaching is awful.

but that is not strictly true Nick....You too have claimed coaching and suggested not much else, which leads a pathway to SG.....our new coach has had no pre-season and 3 League games and 1 cup game......hardly time to be hanging him.

I am backing SG....but I am equally miffed, with aspects of our play, that I still see under SG, that's something, I wasn't expecting......I am in no way condoning our insipid football.....just not as sure as you where the blame actually lies.

I don't know what happens behind the scenes......My point is, he is responsible for our play, but that is not the same as he is doing nothing or doesn't know what he is doing.....we simply don't know that, just putting 2 and 2 together and forming an opinion.

Personally, with the odd exception, I am not convinced with the recruitment fwiw....Carlos was a tragedy, and Kamara, looks good....but what else have we done since a 14th finish, in terms of enhancing first team opportunities/ Strength.

I have already mooted in an earlier post, that since Coutinho and Digne have arrived, we have become more lightweight, as opposed to more robust, which is what, I was looking for......that could be a co-incidence, but our results have regressed to what was earlier, some progress.

That does not mean, I think Targett is a better footballer, because he is not.....Coutinho on his day is world class, but he needs the right players around him, to be freed up....We allow opposing players to negate him, so his benefit is lost.

I have said many times Nick, that I am backing Gerrard, but that does not mean, I see things that he is responsible for and not baulk....but I equally think that the time he has had, is too short to be forming conclusions of culling.

I say it again, after the encouraging swoop for Carlos and Kamara, the rest of the summer transfer time has left me with melancholy and I haven't  a clue what we are doing now.

SG has more time for me, and I think he will reverse the shocking trend of results.....but I say again, I am not unconditionally backing his to continue a poor run of results.....at some point a decision will be made, but results will ultimately, be his fate.

Edited August 25, 2022 by TRO

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

but that is not strictly true Nick....You too have claimed coaching and suggested not much else, which leads a pathway to SG.....our new coach has had no pre-season and 3 League games and 1 cup game......hardly time to be hanging him.

I am backing SG....but I am equally miffed, with aspects of our play, that I still see under SG, that's is something, I wasn't expecting......I am in no way condoning our insipid football.

I don't know what happens behind the scenes......My point is, he is responsible for our play, but that is not the same as he is doing nothing or doesn't know what he is doing.....we simply don't know that, just putting 2 and 2 together and forming an opinion.

Personally, with the odd exception, I am not convinced with the recruitment fwiw....Carlos was a tragedy, and Kamara, looks good....but what else have we done since a 14th finish, in terms of enhancing first team opportunities/ Strength.

I have already mooted in an earlier post, that since Coutinho and Digne have arrived, we have become more lightweight, as opposed to more robust, which is what, I was looking for......that could be a co-incidence, but our results have regressed to what was earlier, some progress.

That does not mean, I think Targett is a better footballer, because he is not.....Coutinho on his day is world class, but he needs the right players around him, to be freed up....We allow opposing players to negate him, so his benefit is lost.

I have said many times Nick, that I am backing Gerrard, but that does not mean, I see things that he is responsible for and not baulk....but I equally think that the time he has had, is too short to be forming conclusions of culling.

I say it again, after the encouraging swoop for Carlos and Kamara, the rest of the summer transfer time has left me with melancholy and I haven't  a clue what we are doing now.

SG has more time for me, and I think he will reverse the shocking trend of results.....but I say again, I am not unconditionally backing his to continue a poor run of results.....at some point a decision will be made, but results will ultimately, be his fate.

I think that just proves my previous comment.

[TRO]

19 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head Paul.

As long suffering fans we knew there were two outstanding areas of weakness that were stopping us making the next step up .... The lack of a skilful, mobile and physically imposing CM pairing, and the lack of a dominant CB pairing who have real aerial and positional prowess as well as considerable physical strength.

I believe that Gerrard thought he could manage these weaknesses by trying to replicate the neat and dangerous high possession style of Man C, L'pool etc, without going through the process of building a really strong and combative central spine.

The problem is that SG seems to have ignored the fact that the reason why top teams can do most of their defending in the opposition half, is because they employ some of the world's best footballers. It won't work for us so SG (or his successor) has to do the glaringly obvious and buy players who can dominate key central areas.

Two expensive key signings would point us in the right direction again. 

I agree Totally.

Eddie howe has done it by strengthening, strategically.....despite his stature, he signed Trippier, who has leadership qualities, along with his dead ball prowess and drives the team.....Eddie kind of adds weapons to his outfit, where ours are all too samey.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I don't remember that one being thrown out last year, or for the likes or Bruce, Sherwood, Lambert etc..

 

maybe the penny has just dropped, because we keep changing managers.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Well he does love to empty and bypass the midfield doesn’t he?

didn't against Bolton....maybe he's learning or Critchley is getting to grips with the new job.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

maybe the penny has just dropped, because we keep changing managers.

Doesn't make much sense when under one of those managers we had the most success we've had in over a decade. 

Again, we seem to pretend that things have constantly been bad and Gerrard has inherited a club that's achieved nothing but negativity over the last few years  

[tomsky_11]

20 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

@tomsky_11

Again, thx for posting, it is interesting data. If you have all the underlying data behind this would u be so kind as to show a report on a manager's last 10 or 20 or 30 games and let us see the comparison with his successors first 10 or 20 or 30 games. It would be good to see if the new manager was able to improve the ppg from the previous manager's and what timescale it took. 

Thanks,

In the short term (5 or 10 games), most managers saw an improvement over predecessor, which I guess would be expect given likely reason for manager being replaced would be poor form. Taylor replacing Gregory and Houllier replacing O'Neill unsurprisingly coming out worst in this given who they were replacing. McLeish and O'Leary only others who didn't improve over 5 or 10 game comparison to predecessor. In the longer term, less that half the manager's improved on predecessor over 30 game preriod.

Gerrard is tied 1st with Gregory for improvement over 5 game comparison, falls to 6th for 10 and longer 30 game comparison so slightly above average.

In terms of straightforward comparison of these 15 manager's final games, Gerrard's recent form doesn't look so bad by comparison, ranking joint 7th over last 5 games, joint 3rd over 10 and 4th over 30. The only two managers with better final 10 game form left for reasons other than results, while he's tied with Bruce and Gregory, the former with much higher expectations in a lower tier, while the latter resigned after frequent fall outs with Ellis.

(Note: figures highlighted yellow are using entire tenure for comparison where it does not equal or exceeed 30 games)

(Another note: all the above data is for regular season league games only so ignores Bruce and Smith's playoff fixtures. )

(Final note: Also ignored are six separate caretaker stints, which over 19 games brought 20 points in total. Biggest impact of including these would likely be to make McLeish look worse due to McAllister's 1.6ppg from 5 games, and Di Matteo better following Eric Black's 1 point from 7 games)

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think that just proves my previous comment.

That's sheer intransigence and proves nothing......when I have explained my position, which is not the one, you are barking at the moon at.

I am backing SG to turn it around.....That is not the same as backing him unconditionally, surely you can comprehend that.

[Vive_La_Villa]

6 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

In the short term (5 or 10 games), most managers saw an improvement over predecessor, which I guess would be expect given likely reason for manager being replaced would be poor form. Taylor replacing Gregory and Houllier replacing O'Neill unsurprisingly coming out worst in this given who they were replacing. McLeish and O'Leary only others who didn't improve over 5 or 10 game comparison to predecessor. In the longer term, less that half the manager's improved on predecessor over 30 game preriod.

Gerrard is tied 1st with Gregory for improvement over 5 game comparison, falls to 6th for 10 and longer 30 game comparison so slightly above average.

In terms of straightforward comparison of these 15 manager's final games, Gerrard's recent form doesn't look so bad by comparison, ranking joint 7th over last 5 games, joint 3rd over 10 and 4th over 30. The only two managers with better final 10 game form left for reasons other than results, while he's tied with Bruce and Gregory, the former with much higher expectations in a lower tier, while the latter resigned after frequent fall outs with Ellis.

(Note: figures highlighted yellow are using entire tenure for comparison where it does not equal or exceeed 30 games)

(Another note: all the above data is for regular season league games only so ignores Bruce and Smith's playoff fixtures. )

(Final note: Also ignored are six separate caretaker stints, which over 19 games brought 20 points in total. Biggest impact of including these would likely be to make McLeish look worse due to McAllister's 1.6ppg from 5 games, and Di Matteo better following Eric Black's 1 point from 7 games)

So you reckon stick with Gerrard until the World Cup break at least ?