Steven Gerrard

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yep, it's been bad for a long while now and literally ANY other manager would not have had such an easy ride from the fan base (myself included) 

It's telling that many many people still disagree with his dismissal after 5 defeats on the bounce, including a very very alarming collapse against Wolves.   It's difficult to see any other manager and/or any other fanbase would allow that. 

Steve will definitely not get that level of unwavering support, not from us anyway. 

We'll very soon see if he's better than Smith as he's got a decent chunk of the season before he can bring any of his own players in. Let's see if he can get a tune out of Dean's troops that Dean couldn't because we've not just lost 5 on the bounce, we've looked absolutely clueless, worse than awful performances and turning that ship around is no mean feat in itself. 

 

I've seen this a few times and have to disagree. If a club that had barely survived the season before, finished 11th the following season, I seriously doubt that fanbase would be on the back of the manager, during these bad spells. Despite the poor quality at times, it was still a 55 point season. 

Maybe this season would be different, but a lot of our fans wanted him gone by that point anyway. 

I think Gerrard will get very similar support from the villa fans. I can't see many turning on him unless it goes disastrous early doors.

[Adam2003]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

I was using Martinez as an example. If Stevie G knows his next club 12 months in advance - wots to stop on or two cut price departure s in the direction of Anfield.?

I kind of get what you’re saying in that players could theoretically run their contracts down or something if they 100% knew he was going to try to sign them but Villa wouldn’t just accept cheaper transfer deals outside of that. 

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’m more concerned with people constantly mentioning win rate percentages without any context. 

I think comparing a well established team like Celtic with 9 titles to its name and its managers having a 70% win ratio....its quite something to start your managerial career, from a damaged league postion and end up halting the 10th title...accruing a 65% win ratio along the way.

I think he has enough context for any believing soul like me to be getting on with.

[Vive_La_Villa]

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I make it that he has played with 2 of our current squad, I wonder will that have an influence on game time for them

Ings and ?

[maqroll]

People say it was the totality of results in 2021, but for me it was the 5 losses at the end that sealed it. The collapse v Wolves in front of Edens and then 4 straight clueless performances doomed him. If he snuck one win in there, he'd still be Villa manager,  IMO.

[maqroll]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Ings and ?

Young.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

I respectfully disagree. Subs can change games. Italy vs. England in the Euro’s case and point. Had Southgate made changes earlier and tried to wrestle back control of the game at 1-0, we’d have won the game. Instead, he did nothing. 

Another great example is when Leeds came to VP and beat us 3-0. I think Bielsa made a change 30 minutes in because it wasn’t working. 

Too often managers just allow games to pass them by and wait until 65 minutes to change things. Why is that? Why can you only make changes after 60 mins? If it isn’t working, change it at half time. Shake it up a bit. Smith was poor with his substitutions for the most part and I think it cost him points at vital times. 

lets put a what if, to you.

If the mentality of the squad is the problem, if the team is not driven properly.....what difference will subs make?....The same mentality, will enter the pitch......i.e change the bowler, but don't change the bowling.

I hear SG doesn't use subs to a large degree, but they have just gone a season without losing, why change things?.....Ron Saunders wasn't huge on subs, only for injuries.

I think its an bit overstated to be honest.

Edited November 13, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

20 minutes ago, hippo said:

I was using Martinez as an example. If Stevie G knows his next club 12 months in advance - wots to stop on or two cut price departure s in the direction of Anfield.?

He’s head coach. He won’t have anything to do with the price of our players. 

[hippo]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

His 65% win ratio at Ibrox is not to be sniffed at or his transformation of a punished club, as his fledgling opportunity in to management....He has shown his ability to blend players in to a unit, by his record on the European circuit.

I say again, and will keep on saying, there is not a manager out there, that can guarantee success, for us, so I don't see the rationale of why its mentioned.

Perhaps many fans don't rate personality, I rate it very highly and it is also endorsed by our outgoing manager, when he says "a team mirrors the manager"...it can't be said much clearer....folk either buy in to that, or they don't.

Sure there are examples of it not working,with other characters with some of Steves traits, thats why nothing is nailed on....Me, I believe it will.

If its negatives to look for, it might be his longevity with us, because if he does well over the next 2 years, we might be hard pressed to hang on to him...a lot of that depends on us and how we engage with him. It could also be that in such circumstances, Michael Beale could be attracted to the job, and by that time he might be ready to be his own boss....by all accounts he seems to be a huge, element in SG's success.

I think it has proved hard for us to make that step up in to the top 10 of the league, this might just be the leg up, we have needed, only time will tell....I still believe that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.....We have a box office name in our managers role, lets embrace it and use it to our own advantage, if Steve goes in  2 years say, we should in theory, be in a much stronger position to be punching our new found weight.

I really don't quite understand the Ibrox thing, its one of the hardest gig's in football....No room for excuses or sub standard performances, its win from day one....You have to win the league, thats the measure, the pressure must be intense, for your first job that must say a lot of the character of our new guy.

I see only good stuff with this, sorry, if at this stage, I can't give you any Guarantee's.

Tro I am from the same era as you and respect with a lot of what you say but:-

Ibrox being one of the hardest gigs in football ? Come on tro it's a 2 team competition. Livingston win trophies in Scotland.

Gerrards personality.?  Personally I find him quite a sickening character. Always in the referee s face - diving. I think he will upset a few players in the way Houllier did .

Over his tenure here I'm expecting maybe a little better than Smith. 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He’s head coach. He won’t have anything to do with the price of our players. 

Nothing at all ?

Ok then.

[hippo]

19 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

The Aston Villa board? 

Fair one.

But if the board blocked a sale of a player to Anfield - would his relationship with the villa board be beyond repair at that point.

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

His 65% win ratio at Ibrox is not to be sniffed at or his transformation of a punished club, as his fledgling opportunity in to management....He has shown his ability to blend players in to a unit, by his record on the European circuit.

I say again, and will keep on saying, there is not a manager out there, that can guarantee success, for us, so I don't see the rationale of why its mentioned.

Perhaps many fans don't rate personality, I rate it very highly and it is also endorsed by our outgoing manager, when he says "a team mirrors the manager"...it can't be said much clearer....folk either buy in to that, or they don't.

Sure there are examples of it not working,with other characters with some of Steves traits, thats why nothing is nailed on....Me, I believe it will.

If its negatives to look for, it might be his longevity with us, because if he does well over the next 2 years, we might be hard pressed to hang on to him...a lot of that depends on us and how we engage with him. It could also be that in such circumstances, Michael Beale could be attracted to the job, and by that time he might be ready to be his own boss....by all accounts he seems to be a huge, element in SG's success.

I think it has proved hard for us to make that step up in to the top 10 of the league, this might just be the leg up, we have needed, only time will tell....I still believe that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.....We have a box office name in our managers role, lets embrace it and use it to our own advantage, if Steve goes in  2 years say, we should in theory, be in a much stronger position to be punching our new found weight.

I really don't quite understand the Ibrox thing, its one of the hardest gig's in football....No room for excuses or sub standard performances, its win from day one....You have to win the league, thats the measure, the pressure must be intense, for your first job that must say a lot of the character of our new guy.

I see only good stuff with this, sorry, if at this stage, I can't give you any Guarantee's.

I can appreciate that, to some extent.

Not sure why you’re emphasising guarantees, I didn’t say there were any but I do believe there could have been targets that came with more assurance (and either needn’t have to pay so heavily for or actually worth doing so for. If reports are true, I’m appalled that he is on such a high wage from the off - that should have to be earned).

I’m not looking for negatives, just believe a certain amount of apprehension is warranted.

From the content I’ve come across, Beale is absolutely key and for him to succeed Gerrard may well end up being a good shout. The backroom staff seems to hold more importance than the guy at the helm, we’ll have to see. I hope his leadership qualities shine through, they’ should be an asset but it has to be aided by his management skills and decision making.

It is time to look forwards but this has to work out for us.

I am trying to be positive anyway, I just don’t have overwhelming confidence at this point in time.

Yes, we have to embrace it and hope that it leads to success. I want to see a winning team that competes well, is aggressive and is comfortable in possession.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I will harass you no longer

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I was only wrong once in my life.....and then it came to pass, I was right anyway.

Wow… a little humility wouldn’t kill you TRO

[hippo]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I've seen this a few times and have to disagree. If a club that had barely survived the season before, finished 11th the following season, I seriously doubt that fanbase would be on the back of the manager, during these bad spells. Despite the poor quality at times, it was still a 55 point season. 

Maybe this season would be different, but a lot of our fans wanted him gone by that point anyway. 

I think Gerrard will get very similar support from the villa fans. I can't see many turning on him unless it goes disastrous early doors.

Short term I'm sure Stevie G will be fine. We are approaching having all players available and the stop / start effect of internationals diminishing.

We play Brighton with 0 wins in 7 and there first choice keeper suspended.

It's as Stevie G makes changes for the following season that I feel the issues begin. Are Ming's and Target still up to it ? - do we blood more youth players ? 

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Wow… a little humility wouldn’t kill you TRO

Sure I think the one time he was wrong was when he kept backing Steve Bruce   

[Rightdm00]

37 minutes ago, hippo said:

I was using Martinez as an example. If Stevie G knows his next club 12 months in advance - wots to stop on or two cut price departure s in the direction of Anfield.?

Steven's the head coach so he isn't selling players without Lange's approval.  If Steven leaves in a couple years then I'm sure we will get the right price for any player he comes back for. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Tro I am from the same era as you and respect with a lot of what you say but:-

Ibrox being one of the hardest gigs in football ? Come on tro it's a 2 team competition. Livingston win trophies in Scotland.

Gerrards personality.?  Personally I find him quite a sickening character. Always in the referee s face - diving. I think he will upset a few players in the way Houllier did .

Over his tenure here I'm expecting maybe a little better than Smith. 

I can't help you hippo, if you can't see, what I see.

Its quite strange, because most of the time, we see things in a similar light.

I can't agree with your view of Scottish football in the context you are explaining it.

as an example.....you throw a dart at the 20 segment on a dart board it's easy for the average darts player.....you tell them their life depends on it and see it shrink, before you eyes.

managing in Scotland is easy, granted.....you  manage Rangers in the shadows of Celtic with serial titles to their name and be told the title or nothing.....you tell me thats easy for a fledgling manager,with a huge career planned ahead,  it would have experienced managers, running for the bed pan.

His performance in Scotland, is surely impressive for me and he knows the challenge he has taken on, but he could have gone to most clubs outside the top 4 .....He chose to come to us and I am thoroughly excited at that....thanks to our prudent owners.

Winning is not an easy thing to do, at any level....it requires an awful lot of criteria to be right.....I think he has demonstrated in his life and awful lot of examples of a winning mentality, that very few have.

The fact, I have watched from the stands, him almost single handly demolish us, on numerous occasions, where despite our awareness, we simply could not negate him.....has me thinking we have the potential for a very special menatlity of person, now in our dug out.

He is in our camp, Spartacus is on our team....we are not facing him anymore....that fills me with confidence and should in theory motivate our team in a willingness to compete and listen to his teachings.

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

believing is hard to prove, but even as a player, his inner strength was his forte, he could single handedly turn things around, much to our dismay at times....Instanbul was his standout moment for me...unbelieveable turnaround.

But he is our guy now...and he is here to help us and INSPIRE our people....We have much to be pleased about, not many clubs would refuse that.

I have absolutely no reason to tell you to go away, but you either believe in him or you don't.....My suspicion is when he makes his mark on our team, things may become clearer to you.

Read more about him, listen to podcasts.....you might see a different, view, or wait until Saturday, until it all starts....me, I just see that maigical competitive edge in him,and his work, that has me purring.

I do hope he gets a good reception, because he is only here to help us and he has forfeited much love from other sources, to be with us. That is a huge endorsement for me...some SG fans must be peed off that he has chosen us to enhance his footballing journey....just like some of us got peed off with Jack, because our emotional attachment was breached....SG will have done the same to Rangers and Liverpool fans, he is deeply cherished by those fans.

I think this have been genius by our owners and only furthers my thoughts of how commited they are to us....that in itself is also reassuring.

Belief is a monumental commodity in football and SG and his entourage, have it in abundance, to spread ro us.....The academy stars must be beside themselves to be working with SG.

He is our William Wallace and we all know what a motivating force, he was.

But I will finish by saying this....Aston Villa, is itself....a very special football club, not because, I have deep fellings for it, but its steep history, is engaging, it sucks you in....It is not surprising when folk pass through, players and managers a deep affection is garnered, JT as a perfect example, it doesn't take long to be affected by is aura and the passion of the crowd, get VP Rocking and it has few peers.....I am not sure how long we can hang on to SG, but I am surely going to enjoy the ride, while he is here.

 

He will get support, I don’t doubt that at all. I just get the impression that your admiration for him is based on his record, reputation and status as a player more than anything… maybe not.

I’ve already covered my thoughts on his Rangers tenure, his record doesn’t impress me as much as it does others for various reasons. 1 from a potential 9 trophies is far from amazing.

But context is everything.

To overcome Celtic (although, they were not in a great place and he had to spend quite a lot in SPL terms) and to go a season unbeaten is impressive, only 13 goals conceded is excellent too. But how is that going to translate to the PL? Will it, in any way?

It’s a completely different experience and a MASSIVE step up. That can’t be underestimated, it’s a huge challenge. The standard of players, opposition and managers is light years ahead of anything in the SPL. Although, I acknowledge he did well in Europe. I can see the reasons for encouragement too, absolutely.

There are several arguments and points of debate, on both sides. I’m trying to appreciate and acknowledge as many of them as I can…

To keep the support going, he has to do well. He’s under a lot of pressure imo and the board have heavily backed him.

I hope it all works out for the best, I have no intentions to dampen your spirits.

Onwards and upwards from here please… starting with a cracking performance against Brighton!

[Jas10]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Sure I think the one time he was wrong was when he kept backing Steve Bruce   

That always irked me tbh…

But I still respect TRO’s views.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

16 minutes ago, hippo said:

Fair one.

But if the board blocked a sale of a player to Anfield - would his relationship with the villa board be beyond repair at that point.

God knows, too much mental gymnastics for me. I understand your concern that he might do such a good job here that Liverpool want him, but it's not one I share to tell you the truth. If it happens, we move.