Steven Gerrard

[KentVillan]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Was that the new manager bounce though, in 2022 we have been poor except that 3 game winning streak. I think we are Roy Hodgson only Watford win.

FWIW I dont think we would have been near a relegation battle with Smith either 

When Smith was sacked, there was a 7-point spread between Man Utd in 6th and Watford in 17th. The idea that we were already in a relegation battle only 11 games into the season was just pure panic mode.

It's extremely likely that Gerrard sees 5 defeats on the bounce with a very hard Spurs game, and then Leicester away. If it happens, I won't be calling for him to be sacked, because they are 5 really tough fixtures against sides with better squads than us.

[useless]

Can guarantee that if Smith had have stayed and we had the same results with him as manager that we've had with Gerrard, a lot of the people criticizing Gerrard would be praising Smith and saying what wonderful job he's done turning our season around after a difficult start, and pointing out how since November it's only the top six and Wolves that have better form than us, and I'm sure the fact that we're on course to finish in the top ten for the first time in over ten years would be brought up as well, as well as the fact we're doing it without Grealish.

 

[KentVillan]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Can guarantee that if Smith had have stayed and we had the same results with him as manager that we've had with Gerrard, a lot of the people criticizing Gerrard would be praising Smith and saying what wonderful job he's done turning our season around after a difficult start, and pointing out how since November it's only the top six and Wolves that have better form than us, and I'm sure the fact that we're on course to finish in the top ten for the first time in over ten years would be brought up as well, as well as the fact we're doing it without Grealish.

Maybe, but isn't that because Smith had credit in the bank after taking us up from the Championship? People are holding Gerrard to a higher standard because he has come here supposedly to take the club to the next level... and there isn't much evidence of that yet. At the moment, it feels like a continuation of Smith's record, but with a slightly different playing style.

(And FWIW, I am not a Gerrard critic, I want him to be backed in the summer, and I want to see what he can do next season. I just get annoyed when people make out like sacking Smith was a masterstroke because look how Gerrard has turned things around. It's BS. Jury is still out.)

Edited April 3, 2022 by KentVillan

[GingerCollins29]

15 minutes ago, useless said:

Can guarantee that if Smith had have stayed and we had the same results with him as manager that we've had with Gerrard, a lot of the people criticizing Gerrard would be praising Smith and saying what wonderful job he's done turning our season around after a difficult start, and pointing out how since November it's only the top six and Wolves that have better form than us, and I'm sure the fact that we're on course to finish in the top ten for the first time in over ten years would be brought up as well, as well as the fact we're doing it without Grealish.

 

On course for top ten? U looked at the table?

We'll be between 11th and 14th and back where we started from end of last year, only with less points.

SG was a waste of an appointment. Great for the media, awful for Villa

[useless]

We had been poor with Smith since the start of last year, so Gerrard has improved us not even sure why that's even in question and Gerrard is obviously doing much better without Grealish than Smith had done. People talk about Smith not being able to play with Ings, Bailey, and Buendia, but completely ignore that Bailey has only just returned to fitness for Gerrard, in fact Smith had more of a fit Bailey than Gerrard has had.

Also we're where we are in the table because of Smith's bad start, since Gerrard came in we're 8th in the form guide whether people like it or not he's done a good job overall up until now and if we carry on our overall form then we will have a good chance of finishing top half, 26 points from 19 games which would average out to 52 points over a season.

Edited April 3, 2022 by useless

[VillaParkAvenue]

23 minutes ago, useless said:

Can guarantee that if Smith had have stayed and we had the same results with him as manager that we've had with Gerrard, a lot of the people criticizing Gerrard would be praising Smith and saying what wonderful job he's done turning our season around after a difficult start, and pointing out how since November it's only the top six and Wolves that have better form than us, and I'm sure the fact that we're on course to finish in the top ten for the first time in over ten years would be brought up as well, as well as the fact we're doing it without Grealish.

 

Maybe some but don’t count me in. I was all for letting Smith go, but wanted him replaced with an experienced and tactically strong alternative.

It’s absurd we’re still debating Smith vs Gerrard as if it were Beatles vs Rolling Stones. Neither Smith nor Gerrard had had success, or even any experience at all, in a big league before being appointed!

[KentVillan]

4 minutes ago, useless said:

We had been poor with Smith since the start of last year, so Gerrard has improved us not even sure why that's even in question and Gerrard is obviously doing much better without Grealish than Smith had done. People talk about Smith not being able to play with Ings, Bailey, and Buendia, but completely ignore that Bailey has only just returned to fitness for Gerrard, in fact Smith had more of a fit Bailey than Gerrard has had.

Also we're where we are in the table because of Smith's bad start, since Gerrard came in we're 8th in the form guide whether people like it or not he's done a good job overall up until now and if we carry on our overall form then we will have a good chance of finishing top half.

We ended last season with back to back wins against Chelsea and Spurs. The whole "calendar year form" thing was massively exaggerated by Smith's critics.

Gerrard now has games against Spurs, Leicester, Liverpool and Man City to look forward to. Fair play to him if he gets a couple of results out of those, then I think he has improved things. But let's see where we are at the end of the season.

[useless]

We played 33 games from January 1st 2021 until Smith was sacked on November 5th of that year, and took 39 points, that's not exactly great form, yes finished the season with a couple of good results but again only when Grealish returned to the team and playing against teams with nothing to play for, last couple of games of a season often bring up such results, similar to when we finished 9th under Houllier.

Also whether Gerrard gets couple of results from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs, and Man City doesn't determine whether he's improved us or not, it doesn't work like that, you have to look at his results as an whole, so far we've haven't had very good results against the teams above us for example, but overall we've improved certainly from the start we had to this season with Smith but also from since the beginning of last year, and that's with Gerrard coming into a struggling team, not having his own players, and having injuries to contend with.

[useless]

And by the way I like Smith a lot and thought he did a very good job overall, just went wrong for him towards the end. For Gerrard to be seen in the same brilliant light as him he's probably going to have to win us a trophy or at least get us into Europe. The point isn't that Gerrard has already been a better manager than Smith was for us overall, he's only been here nineteen games so that's impossible, it's that he's improved upon the form that we were showing towards the end of Smith's reign but more importantly we've shown top half form since he came in which is something to build on.

[KentVillan]

6 minutes ago, useless said:

We played 33 games from January 1st 2021 until Smith was sacked on November 5th of that year, and took 39 points, that's not exactly great form, yes finished the season with a couple of good results but again only when Grealish returned to the team and playing against teams with nothing to play for, last couple of games of a season often bring up such results, similar to when we finished 9th under Houllier.

Also whether Gerrard gets couple of results from Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs, and Man City doesn't determine whether he's improved us or not, it doesn't work like that, you have to look at his results as an whole, so far we've haven't had very good results against the teams above us for example, but overall we've improved certainly from the start we had to this season with Smith but also from since the beginning of last year, and that's with Gerrard coming into a struggling team, not having his own players, and having injuries to contend with.

I meant in the context of results as a whole. If he doesn't get anything out of those games, we probably won't be 8th in the form table anymore.

You can frame it as Gerrard coming into a struggling team with injuries. Equally, you can frame it as an unsettled squad (losing Grealish, signing several new attacking players) having time to gel which meant we'd always end the season stronger than we started, regardless of manager.

Smith finishes 11th with Grealish and Barkley, Gerrard finishes 9th, 10th or 11th with Coutinho, Buendia and Ings. It's hardly a dramatic improvement (and no, I doubt we'd have finished much higher if he'd been here since the start of the season... Wolves, West Ham and United are miles ahead of us).

[jacketspuds]

What amazes me is that there are a few fans that have already decided that Gerrard is not good enough to manage us, after 19 games and one January window.

I wonder how many of these armchair experts work in football?

[useless]

West Ham have only taken two more points than us since Gerrard came in and have played one more game than us, Wolves have taken seven more points but have also played a game more, hardly 'miles' ahead, and of course Man Utd are much better than us, we're not expected to be anywhere near as good as them.

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

And by the way I like Smith a lot and thought he did a very good job overall, just went wrong for him towards the end. For Gerrard to be seen in the same brilliant light as him he's probably going to have to win us a trophy or at least get us into Europe. The point isn't that Gerrard has already been a better manager than Smith was for us overall, he's only been here nineteen games so that's impossible, it's that he's improved upon the form that we were showing towards the end of Smith's reign but more importantly we've shown top half form since he came in which is something to build on.

That's fair, but it's not night and day as others (not you) have suggested. And arguably that improved form is down to the squad gelling, and one inspired loan signing of a world class player who we may not be able to hang on to.

I'm genuinely fairly optimistic about Gerrard, but I think it all hinges on this summer transfer window. I don't see anything yet to suggest next season is going to be a big step up, but a couple of good signings and holding on to our best players could be enough to really kick on.

[KentVillan]

5 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

What amazes me is that there are a few fans that have already decided that Gerrard is not good enough to manage us, after 19 games and one January window.

I wonder how many of these armchair experts work in football?

Who are these fans

Also the entire concept of this message board is armchair experts talking half-informed shite about football, so maybe you're in the wrong place 

Edited April 3, 2022 by KentVillan

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

What amazes me is that there are a few fans that have already decided that Gerrard is not good enough to manage us, after 19 games and one January window.

I wonder how many of these armchair experts work in football?

Didnt people say similar about Remi Garde and Sherwood? They werent proven wrong either

50 percent loss record is disgraceful

[jacketspuds]

Just now, Zatman said:

Didnt people say similar about Remi Garde and Sherwood? They werent proven wrong either

50 percent loss record is disgraceful

You might be right, but surely it’s too early to know.

[useless]

I don't think this season really matters with regards to Gerrard's future, just has to make sure he isn't a total disaster. It will be next season when he's had a summer transfer window when he will be properly judged and he will be under a lot of pressure to do well, next season will be the first since the O'Neill days where we won't be happy just to finish midtable but will be expecting to challenge for Europe and do well in the cups, but that's not just because it's Steven, would be the same with any manager going into next season, midtable won't be good enough

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, jacketspuds said:

You might be right, but surely it’s too early to know.

It is, and the Tactics Tim jibes being thrown at Gerrard are unfair. He has a really good coaching setup and he's shown a lot more flexibility and awareness of modern football than Sherwood ever did.

We should definitely give Gerrard the whole of next season IMO, unless results are really bad.

[jacketspuds]

3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Who are these fans

Also the entire concept of this message board is armchair experts talking half-informed shite about football, so maybe you're in the wrong place 

True, but that doesn’t mean I can’t get pissed off with it and voice my own half informed shite opinion.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

You might be right, but surely it’s too early to know.

of course but after 20 games I see no potential in Gerrard after the new manager bounce. I see a stubborn fool with the same tactics that beat Kilmarnock and Hamilton and thinks they will work against better managers.

When we abandoned it we won 3 in a row and then went back to it