Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I agree about the lack of balance and no ball winner in midfield but also think you're letting Gerrard off the hook too easily.

 

He plays the same way each week with the FBs expected to provide the width and leaving the CMs exposed and players like McGinn and Ramsey having to cover the FBs when it is clear they are not strong at this. He could change his formation and shape but chooses not to. We have very good wide players like Bailey who was being asked to play the no 10 role yesterday because Gerrard stubbornly wants to play the same formation he played in Scotland every game. 

 

Also, he decided to bring in Digne and Coutinho which were great signings on paper, but ignored bringing in a DM. January is obviously a tough time to buy but if we were so desperate for a player of this type he should have made it a priority in January, he didn't. In fact he said that he was very happy with what he had when the window slammed shut in January so this is all on him I'm afraid. 

I hope not, but I am willing to give him enough time to get the job done as he sees it fit.

I don't understand the full backs playing further forward, while we have such a poorly balanced midfield, I grant you that....its first things first for me, but he can't do anything majorly until the summer.

I think he had 8 league games, before the Window opened, winning 4...it was hardly any time to be in a position of in depth knowledge regarding the transfer window.....I am still not convinced with the Lucas Digne business, but will reserve my judgment for later.

No body wants a CDM of quality, more than me....so I don't know, other than the deals not being right, why we didn't sign one.....but it should have been done , before he arrived last summer.

I am sure, he recognises, its all on him, but Rome wasn't built in a day......Biesla was touted as one of the best around, but it didn't work for him this season, did it.

We have to give him the latitiude to work through this.....and judge him after a reasonable time has passed.

[Demitri_C]

God i hope he doesnt go for any rangers players in the summer. Have not been impressed with any of them

[KentVillan]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

We've been trying and failing to sign this type of players for years. There are tons of links and deals and some supposedly been very close among them Phillips, (Rice on loan), Weston McKennie, Doucoure Pape Matar-Sarr, JWP and so on up to Bentancour and Zakaria in January.

We've looked for this type of players for a long time. As to why we've not been able to get the deals over the line, that's an issue.

My suspicion is that we've been more willing to overspend on strikers and wingers, and have been priced out of signing a decent DM / box-to-box CM because there's something wrong with the way we value them. Don't know if that's coming from the sporting directors, or from Purslow or from the data analysts, but it's clearly a long-running thing now.

We were definitely after Phillips (although doubt he wanted to leave) and a reliable source says we were very close to signing JWP. In both cases, another 10-15m on the table would have probably got the deal over the line, but we backed away.

That's fine if you're only shopping around for value in the transfer market, and don't want to be seen as overpayers. But if it's a position that is leaving a gaping hole in the squad, then maybe it is worth just spending a bit more than "market value" occasionally.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

We've been trying and failing to sign this type of players for years. There are tons of links and deals and some supposedly been very close among them Phillips, (Rice on loan), Weston McKennie, Doucoure Pape Matar-Sarr, JWP and so on up to Bentancour and Zakaria in January.

We've looked for this type of players for a long time. As to why we've not been able to get the deals over the line, that's an issue.

I accept your point.....but I am not accepting the outcome.

I seem to remember, a mooted point, one window, where Dean said he is happy with the midfield, and no money was spent in that area.....so I am dubious as the whether we have been looking for long or in fact with any urgency.

I find it bewildering, that every other club has them in their squads....some have 2-3.

No other position in the team, would be over looked liked this position seems to have been.

[sne]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

My suspicion is that we've been more willing to overspend on strikers and wingers, and have been priced out of signing a decent DM / box-to-box CM because there's something wrong with the way we value them. Don't know if that's coming from the sporting directors, or from Purslow or from the data analysts, but it's clearly a long-running thing now.

We were definitely after Phillips (although doubt he wanted to leave) and a reliable source says we were very close to signing JWP. In both cases, another 10-15m on the table would have probably got the deal over the line, but we backed away.

That's fine if you're only shopping around for value in the transfer market, and don't want to be seen as overpayers. But if it's a position that is leaving a gaping hole in the squad, then maybe it is worth just spending a bit more than "market value" occasionally.

Yeah, think so too. We've not been willing or desperate enough to get it over the line. Not that we've not been looking for this type of player thou.

Phillips was likely dead in the water thou the last time as he didn't want to leave.

[KentVillan]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept your point.....but I am not accepting the outcome.

I seem to remember, a mooted point, one window, where Dean said he is happy with the midfield, and no money was spent in that area.....so I am dubious as the whether we have been looking for long or in fact with any urgency.

I find it bewildering, that every other club has them in their squads....some have 2-3.

No other position in the team, would be over looked liked this position seems to have been.

I think there may be some truth in Smith being partly to blame, because he never saw the specialist DM as a key player in his system. His preferred choice was always a Hourihane / Luiz type midfielder holding.

If Gerrard goes out this summer and spends £50m on a DM, hangs on to Nakamba, and starts giving Iroegbunam some minutes, then I think it'll be answered.

Having said that, I still don't really understand why the club couldn't have signed a better DM during the Smith era, and we were routinely linked with specialist DMs during his time here. Hard to say if his public comments about being "happy with his midfield" were what he really believed, or just him being diplomatic.

[rodders0223]

29 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Targett wanted to leave though

So?

[AvonVillain]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Yeah, I'm quite surprised how much i don't give a shit right now. I was excited when Gerrard came in but I've got a real 'meh' attitude towards us at the moment. 

I think losing Grealish and Smith has done that. 

Yep, the same. It's actually quite sad to still be feeling so flat about Villa all these months later because of this. It was the perfect scenario and the best possible approach. Now we're in the slightly strange scenario of being managed by a Liverpool legend learning his trade with designs on ultimately being elsewhere.

[Zatman]

Its all a bit Roy Keane at Ipswich at the moment. Right down to throwing the players under the bus

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I really don't see what we have gained by bringing in Gerrard on his huge salary. When we sacked Smith we should have actually gone all out for a top manager like Ten Hag but instead Purslow took on a rookie just because he was a big-name player and decided to pay him an extortionate salary. It was pretty brainless if we're being honest like so many managerial appointments we have made over the years.

 

Gerrard doesn't show any tactical flexibility, he stubbornly sticks to his formation of playing two no 10s despite it being ineffective after every gameweek. He tries to outplay teams above us in the league, when it would be more effective to play counter attack and use the pace of Bailey and Watkins. We did that under Smith and won 8 games against the top 10 last season. This season we have won 2 against the top 10 and Gerrard was only in charge for one of them. 

 

The one thing bringing in Gerrard did was allow us to bring in players like Coutinho and Digne, but fat lot of good that's done for us. Since they've signed we've lost more than we've won including to mediocre teams like Watford and Newcastle and teams like Wolves and West Ham who we should be looking to at least draw with if Gerrard wants to show he can take us where we want to go. 

 

We can give Gerrard more money to fix our issues this summer but I don't think he's good enough to take us into Europe. I may be wrong, but even if he does manage it it will be at huge expense to the club if we're going to go out and spend 60m on players like Phillips. We've already invested an awful lot of the owners' money into the squad with nothing to show for it. 

 

People are still saying we have no right to be competing with teams like Wolves, well this is net spend over the last 10 years: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12535322/transfers-man-utd-top-man-city-psg-barcelona-and-arsenal-for-net-spend-over-decade

 

This includes several years of us spending no money whatsoever under Lerner and then a few years in the Champ where apart from the first summer we weren't allowed to spend any money. We've still massively outspend Wolves in that period, as well as a higher net spend than Tottenham, Leicester, West Ham and even Chelsea and Liverpool. Yet all of those teams have a lot more to show for it, we haven't even finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years whereas Leicester, Liverpool and Chelsea have all won the league and Spurs, Wolves and West Ham have played in Europe. Even bloody Palace and the Barcodes have finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years. 

 

I'm pretty sure Gerrard will be heavily backed in the summer but after every gameweek he just doesn't show enough for me. I think he's a cheque book manager who will spend a lot of money here and we may or may not finish in Europe. I am not sure it is a stable route to go down at all and we could heaven forbid end up like Everton who are in one almighty mess and there will be huge ramifications for them if they go down just like there were for us when we finished rock bottom in 2016.

You keep pedling that line.....What Tactical flexibilty are you looking for with a squad that lacks variation in type.?......in cricket terms we can change the bowler, but not change the bowling.

The midfield is all the same....the wingers are all the same, none are effective or stand out.....The 2 stikers have everyone divided.....what are these magical changes the manager is denying us of?

With the squad, he has....what do you think he should do? that prompts you to call out his tactical flexibility in to question....He has 2 well reputed coaches to help him too....is Michael Beale clueless too?

You could pick this team from the squad, with a hat pin, for what its worth.

did you baulk, when he brought in Coutinho and Digne?....No because they are talented players, depite the questions relating to, was they priority......but we have enough talent, what we need is something else and he needs the summer to rectify it.

He has an army of recruitment Staff and a DoF, so I am sure, just like with Dean, its not just one mans decision.....I would guess a committee is responsible for their input.

He has bought 1 player and loaned another, and you call him a cheque book manager, thats a bit rich.....Shall we take the safe route and but exclusively from division 2 or everyone elses cast offs......you seem to want your cake and eat it.

Its a gamble and the better you are at talent spotting and blending, the less of a gamble it becomes....we could be another Everton, sure....but its the nature of the beast, what are the alternatives?

I would think the top teams have a few classic flops they would care to keep stumm about...so lets not get overly cautious.

[Demitri_C]

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Its all a bit Roy Keane at Ipswich at the moment. Right down to throwing the players under the bus

I think thwy do deserve to be  criticised that 1st half display was unacceptable 

Some of that defending was league two standard inexcusable 

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

The facts are he did inherit someone else's squad and his predecessor couldn't get a consistent tune from that squad. At best though that squad was a mid table 9th -14th placed squad.

All managers inherit someone else’s squad when they take over. And the reason they got the job is, nearly always, the predecessor failing with that squad.

The sign of a good manager is the ability to improve the squad he takes over. All managers will also want to add players they like, but it’s rare to demand a clear-out when stepping in.

I agree with others that even though players may deserve to hear they’re not good enough, it’s usually a counter-productive thing to say.

Also somewhat irritating is that when Gerrard ”threatens” players with the possibility of getting sold, he doesn’t for a second doubt his own future. Gerrard seems confident Purslow won’t bother him.

[PussEKatt]

We have to give SG more time.I mean he has only been here half a season and only bought in 3 players ( one of them a reserve GK )On the other hand the players attitude MUST change,this not turning up for games is wearing a bit thin for me.They did that under DS and they are doing it under SG.Obviously that wont change in half a season ,they do seem to be turning up for more games under SG,but still not enough.

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think there may be some truth in Smith being partly to blame, because he never saw the specialist DM as a key player in his system. His preferred choice was always a Hourihane / Luiz type midfielder holding.

If Gerrard goes out this summer and spends £50m on a DM, hangs on to Nakamba, and starts giving Iroegbunam some minutes, then I think it'll be answered.

Having said that, I still don't really understand why the club couldn't have signed a better DM during the Smith era, and we were routinely linked with specialist DMs during his time here. Hard to say if his public comments about being "happy with his midfield" were what he really believed, or just him being diplomatic.

you answered your own point.....his answer was a DLP, i think that flaw in his thinking, was his down fall.

A DLP in conjunction with our midfield permutation/ personnel was the flaw,IMO.

much what I would like to see.....I like Tim and Marv

• Tim as one for the future
• Marv as back up
• A quality leader who can dictate the tempo and show Authority....obviously a good passer of the ball with a nose for stopping the opposition.

[PerryBarrPet]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think thwy do deserve to be  criticised that 1st half display was unacceptable 

Some of that defending was league two standard inexcusable 

Spot on. We need to stop defending/finding excuses for players who cannot or will not perform.  We’re not talking about young players who need schooling!

[tomav84]

56 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Targett wanted to leave though

with the greatest respect i'm so sick of hearing this. he's our player, we decide if he stays or goes. was he kicking up a stink? slating the manager on social media? upsetting the dressing room? didn't strike me as that sort one bit.

everyone knew it was the wrong decision, and it's been proven

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

Spot on. We need to stop defending/finding excuses for players who cannot or will not perform.  We’re not talking about young players who need schooling!

and it hasnt been just a few games it 15 months of constant 45 minute displays, we just dont know if we are going to play the first half or second half.  It is so rare for us to play for a full 90 mins it's scary!

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

with the greatest respect i'm so sick of hearing this. he's our player, we decide if he stays or goes. was he kicking up a stink? slating the manager on social media? upsetting the dressing room? didn't strike me as that sort one bit.

everyone knew it was the wrong decision, and it's been proven

Its a tricky one.

We have weakened the defensive side of our game, when we need every bit of defensive help we can get, even though Targett is not great defensively.

I accept as a footballer, Lucas is better quality.....I also accept finances have to be balanced, with Player welfare/wellbeing.

It maybe SG see's further in advance to us, and when the right players are signed for midfield, the signing will have more credence....maybe it was an opportunity, the club felt thay had to move on.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

and it hasnt been just a few games it 15 months of constant 45 minute displays, we just dont know if we are going to play the first half or second half.  It is so rare for us to play for a full 90 mins it's scary!

Nick,

Analogy............Have you ever been to Twickenham, pick a pub and go to the bar.....you get 6'6 giants all terribly courteous, pushing you about, without even noticing they are doing it or that you are there, all so gentlemanly , but like in amongst a herd of Elephants.

My point is....we need a few big uns, in amongst our talent to balance things out....we are being out muscled too often.

We are quite a small team bar Mings and without fouling, find it difficult to make a mark physically.

[foreveryoung]

16 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

with the greatest respect i'm so sick of hearing this. he's our player, we decide if he stays or goes. was he kicking up a stink? slating the manager on social media? upsetting the dressing room? didn't strike me as that sort one bit.

everyone knew it was the wrong decision, and it's been proven

We can't get performances out of the players who we want here, do you think we would be getting a performance out of Targett, being that he wanted to leave.