Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, hippo said:

Calls to sack him are premature no doubt.

But we are so soft - those calls might look so ridiculous come the end of next month.

Whilst not easy I happen to think Brighton on Saturday could be our best chance of 3pts for a while

 

 

and that is an under statement.

Hippo, we was like this under Dean.

Personally, I don't think Pep would do any better with this group in 3 months.

Edited February 21, 2022 by TRO

[VillaParkAvenue]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

It will take time, and I can't see it happening without changes in personnel.

I don’t think anyone is questioning we need some new players. But we can’t change the squad now so until summer must do everything to improve with current players.

If we can’t improve from here without new players, then we’re doomed and might as well roll over and die.

[allani]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

He is stuck between a rock and a hard place....

He is in  a hurry to do things.....but he hasn't got the personnel to progress to what he wants, to do.....that might have to be revisited in his head.

It will take time, and I can't see it happening without changes in personnel.

I think the calls to blame him entirely are premature, despite me seeing errors and mistakes, he is making.......We have to Remember here, this is primarily the squad that got Dean Smith the sack and John Terry decided to part company with, despite still having no reportable job.

SG needs time to sort this out....no one else can who is employed at Villa.....its on him, and no one knows that more than him.

Maybe the good start has been a curse in disguise, because it has paper over the deep lying cracks.

I think he will get it right....but not until the summer window...we just have to try and hang on.

 

Exactly.  The issue(s) with the team have been there for a while and are not a quick fix.  At the risk of thinking that one issue will solve everything, I do believe that the reason we struggle at times going forwards and also in defence is down to the centre midfield three.  When they play well, we can play some exceptional stuff.  But they just don't do it consistently enough.

I think that regardless of how we try and play that will remain the issue as long as McGinn and Luiz are playing there together.  We were having EXACTLY the same issues this time last season that we are this season.  The manager has changed, the system has changed, the constant is that McGinn and Luiz very rarely work well together in terms of controlling the midfield.  We can sack as many managers as we want but failing to replace those two players will keep on putting us back in the same position.  Smith had 2 seasons to see that and do something about it.  He was (probably) unlucky that Sanson was out for so long but I am not sure that Sanson was the answer anyway.  Gerrard hasn't really had a chance to address that - I think it feels obvious that we tried to go after a couple of players in that position but it is incredibly hard to sign quality players in January (unless there is a specific set of circumstances playing in your favour or you are prepared to pay WELL over the odds).

We have to give him a chance to address this.  If we are still struggling after the summer then his future deserves to be questioned.  It is quite ironic though how some of the most vocal posters about not backing Gerrard heavily in the summer are those who insisted that Smith wasn't given enough time.

I am thinking that we will not go for the DCM that many on this board seem to favour (at the risk of over-simplifying it - a Nakamba who can pass the ball).  I think we'll instead aim to have a midfield who are comfortable on the ball - who are quick enough in terms of passing and quick feet to avoid the hard press and who act as the conductor of our orchestra.  I'm beginning to think that both Luiz and McGinn need to go in the summer because those positions are so critical to us making the next step.  JJ will have a bit more creative / progressive licence within the three.  Whilst I think Luiz is the better player of the two other incumbents I am beginning to think that maybe he's the one we need to move on and that McGinn stays but is here as a super sub (probably to replace / cover either JJ or Buendia).  If Luiz and / or McGinn start our first match of next season then serious questions need to be asked.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I don’t think anyone is questioning we need some new players. But we can’t change the squad now so until summer must do everything to improve with current players.

If we can’t improve from here without new players, then we’re doomed and might as well roll over and die.

giving up is not an option.....we have to fight the best we can.

but the January window, was not as effective as many thought.....once again, we missed out on opportunities to strengthen areas most crucial.

We can't keep passing through windows and signing players its arguable that we don't need most.....and moaning when the window is closed, some folk at VP need the be responsible for that too.

[Zatman]

I wonder if he loses 5 on the spin will his position also become unacceptable

[lexicon]

6 minutes ago, allani said:

No we didn't.  We did more for about 1/3 of a season and then spent 2/3 of the season playing like a team battling relegation.  Our form between January and October was awful.  I'm not saying it is better now but we have the same issues now.  We are a disjointed / unbalanced team.  When we get it right we can look superb and can string a load of good results together.  But when things don't click we struggle to make it work.

We've replaced Grealish's attacking output with several different players, all of whom are perfectly capable of scoring and assisting, and improved at LB with Digne too. It's a much better squad overall. We're only disjointed/unbalanced because of the system that Gerrard is blindingly sticking to. 

[allani]

I posted this earlier but this is literally my FB post from 1 year ago today:

Struggling to understand why we spent €14 million on a midfielder in January. Midfield has been overrun for 4 out of the last 5 matches and yet Smith hasn't changed a thing. Didn't think we could play worse than we did against Brighton. Seems like I was wrong. Players are seemingly dead on their feet. No energy, no commitment. Thankfully we are (probably) safe from relegation. But Smith REALLY needs to identify a Plan B and start using the rest of the squad because at this rate we are going to struggle for the rest of the season. As Trump would say it is time to stop the count!!!

[allani]

2 minutes ago, lexicon said:

You earlier said that we played well for a third of a season, now you're saying that it was only one game?

Besides, the issue we had was with Grealish out the side,  the centre of midfield wasn't so much of a problem then and it worked relatively well. We lacked creativity without Grealish in the side and suffered as a result. We now have creative players to take up the slack, like Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, Coutinho etc.  

The centre mid is a problem because of Gerrard's tactics. 

OK great.  You win.  Let's settle for playing well for a third of a season.  Let me just repeat - we LOST more game in 2021 than any other PL side.  A period which includes the bounce we got with Gerrard taking over.  So if you genuinely believe that we didn't have issues before so be it.  But if 2 different systems under 2 different managers are not working, maybe the system really isn't the main issue.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, allani said:

OK great.  You win.  Let's settle for playing well for a third of a season.  Let me just repeat - we LOST more game in 2021 than any other PL side.  A period which includes the bounce we got with Gerrard taking over.  So if you genuinely believe that we didn't have issues before so be it.  But if 2 different systems under 2 different managers are not working, maybe the system really isn't the main issue.

Smith's system worked when we had Grealish, though, ffs. Look at the points per game with and without him - it's just clear as day. The issues we had was the lack of creativity with him missing. 

Gerrard's system not working has nothing to do with the problems we faced under Smith the season previous. The squad is a lot stronger now and he's not playing a system that gets anywhere near enough out of the players we have because it's a shit system. 

[allani]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

You earlier said that we played well for a third of a season, now you're saying that it was only one game?

Besides, the issue we had was with Grealish out the side,  the centre of midfield wasn't so much of a problem then and it worked relatively well. We lacked creativity without Grealish in the side and suffered as a result. We now have creative players to take up the slack, like Buendia, Bailey, Ramsey, Coutinho etc.  

The centre mid is a problem because of Gerrard's tactics. 

If this is true - why has CDM been the most talked about position in every transfer window thread for the past **** knows how many years?  I mean I literally cannot remember the last time when 90% of the transfer conversation on this board wasn't about the need to strengthen the centre of the pitch.  Anyways, I'm not trying to pick a fight here.  Gerrard needs to find a way of making something tick very quickly so that hopefully we can strengthen in the summer and hopefully (finally!) end up with a team that don't blow so hot or cold. UTV.

[Zatman]

31 minutes ago, allani said:

But in MON's first season (if I remember correctly) we won points at a fairly consistent rate throughout the season.  Last season we went from Top 5 form to Bottom 5 form.  There was almost nothing in between.  For me that made it even more frustrating.

We definitely had a really long streak without winning mid season.

Looking back was a poor streak of 2 wins in 20 between November - March

[allani]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We definitely had a really long streak without winning mid season.

Looking back was a poor streak of 2 wins in 20 between November - March

OK. Fair enough.   I obviously blocked that ****** run from my memory.  If only we could pull together a season when we were actually good for most of it!!!   I for one would be much more chilled out in general...... maybe.....

[VillaChris]

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

I wonder if he loses 5 on the spin will his position also become unacceptable

It's an interesting question.

DS is a little different in terms of metric as he had two and a half years compared to Gerrard's two and a half months so far. However mitigating circumstances were loads of injuries and disruption at start of season due to Grealish, covid and also injuries to key players. He didn't help himself switching to 3-5-2 in his last weeks but then we look just as ill judged playing this system and what's worrying is it's Gerrard's favourite one so he won't be changing in a hurry.

What is going against Gerrard is bar Traore and Nakamba pretty much everyone is fit now and we've just added three decent players in transfer window so simply no excuse for losing five on spin particularly with fixture list not being so taxing.

Think owners will conclude though it's too early and it's a good test of his capabilities to see how long we remain in this slump but dosen't bode well for next season.

[striker]

8 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Yeah we've both spent a lot of money without really too much thinking behind any of it. Some fans still seem to think we're well run, whereas in actual fact we have owners willing to invest (great) but well run we are certainly not.

 

Very rarely do we sell players for profit (Grealish was an exception) and we've spent an average of 100m+ for three consecutive seasons to be below midtable and quite possibly in a soon-to-be relegation battle unless we get our act together pronto. Brighton, Wolves, Leicester (despite a poor season) are well run and all were in the Championship only a few years ago like us so not like we can use the "well we're playing catchup argument" compared to them either. 

 

Fair enough. I always thought Rafa was an odd appointment given his ties to Plop, he was always on a hiding to nothing, though the form at the end was atrocious.

 

I reckon Villa will lose you at some point too in the not too distant future given our tendency to make a cock up of everything 

Na mate. Villa is my team now come what may?

Enjoyed our debate.

[paul514]

Gerrard's set up of our team is well below par.

As much as a midfielder or two is needed he should get way more out of the current crop

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

4 hours ago, paul514 said:

Gerrard's set up of our team is well below par.

As much as a midfielder or two is needed he should get way more out of the current crop

He started well. Looked like his presence alone was inspiring a group very low on confidence and we managed to kick off his reign with some impressive results without setting the world alight. Palace & Leicester id say were the standout performances in the early weeks, with creditable showings against the top 2 sides in the country too. 
 

The FA Cup game at Utd i felt we played well too, then we backed that up with a decent comeback against the same opponent before really grinding it out at Everton before a 16 day break that should have been invaluable for everyone at the club. Whatever happened during that time seems to have had the exact opposite effect. Instead of looking comfortable in the new system, we look disjointed and the players look as if they lack any understanding of how to play the system.

Is it a confidence thing? We saw what losing that Wolves game did in the immediate weeks following. Is this happening again following the Leeds collapse? I feel Gerrard has managed the situation poorly. He bottled it against Watford with the line up. He thought its only Watford in awful form, this lot will get the result I need regardless of their form. Maybe thats just me having a go after the fact, but I just felt changes needed to be made in that midfield. Would have loved to see Tim in there; sometimes that exuberance of youth will come up trumps- it was certainly worth a go because we lost and played awful anyway and we’re still none the wiser knowing how he could do in a game like that. Thats bad management to threaten changes and then not go through with it. How many bad games are McGinn & Luiz allowed to have before being told you’re coming out the side. Imagine the mindset of the likes of Sanson or Iroegbunam, not getting a chance after the Newcastle debacle. 2 players there who Gerrard has talked up in the media. Kortney Hause too just sitting around whilst Chambers goes straight in. He will feel he’s done enough in the games he has come in as cover to play even if did mean 2 left footed CBs.

why do we always have a manager that can only play one way? Once it doesnt work and opposition managers know exactly how to set up against it, we keep persisting with it and take a run of losses, again damaging the teams confidence. Why not be proactively setting teams up to play the opposition in front of you instead of giving them the drop on you as they always know exactly whats coming with Villa. God knows we have the squad for it now to play different ways, different systems that might actually throw off opposing teams, aswell as keeping the squad players honest and interested as they know they’ll be coming in for certain fixtures. At the moment their morale must be shot knowing they wont play regardless how bad the starters have been playing. He needs to step up now and prove he can be flexible because right now he already looks like he’s run out of ideas. He’s been given the players he wants, on top of a decent squad. There’s no excuse to take 1 point from those last 3 games. Its abysmal in fairness and the fans are right to vent their frustration.
 

He isnt getting any sort of reaction from the same players that looked inspired by his appointment at the beginning; thats the worry. With all this said, he still has time and cant properly be judged until the end of the season but the cracks are showing at the moment and  I hope he puts things right in the coming weeks.

[Zero7]

If he doesn't switch it around this weekend and try something different, and result doesn’t go our way then sadly I think the knives will get sharpened. 

[The_Steve]

9 hours ago, paul514 said:

Gerrard's set up of our team is well below par.

As much as a midfielder or two is needed he should get way more out of the current crop

The players need to take some responsibility for their mistakes too. The manager can only go so far. He deserves a chance to bring in better replacements and time to get his ideas across. Clearly, the deficiencies are self-evident. Gerrard has shown some tactical naivety too. It’s a tough learning process. If Smith was given time, so should Gerrard. 

[Condimentalist]

3 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

The players need to take some responsibility for their mistakes too. The manager can only go so far. He deserves a chance to bring in better replacements and time to get his ideas across. Clearly, the deficiencies are self-evident. Gerrard has shown some tactical naivety too. It’s a tough learning process. If Smith was given time, so should Gerrard. 

Defi. Personally I'm looking forward to Gerrard's 10 game winning run. 

[Risso]

14 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

The players need to take some responsibility for their mistakes too. The manager can only go so far. He deserves a chance to bring in better replacements and time to get his ideas across. Clearly, the deficiencies are self-evident. Gerrard has shown some tactical naivety too. It’s a tough learning process. If Smith was given time, so should Gerrard. 

Yes the players need to step up. Watkins has been crap nearly all season, and McGinn and Luiz not much better.