Steven Gerrard

[Jas10]

19 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Would we? Real Madrid sacked the same manager twice after 6 games

Are players turning them down. If anything we will look progressive for growing balls and removing a poison from the club

Remember the outrage when Adkins was sacked by Soton? That was soon forgotten once Poch did the business there…

plenty of examples, it’s just about making the right call/decision…

[ciggiesnbeer]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Interesting how the podcasters seem reluctant to call for SG's head.

Me either. I just want him to fix things, but my doubts that he can do so are growing, while our chances of European football are receding.

We are going to have to choose as a club whether this is another rebuild season or its a season we are going to  challenge for Europe. If its the latter which we were told then Gerrard has very little time. if its the former then the club needs to reset the expectations they have set for fans. 

 

[tomsky_11]

17 minutes ago, Thug said:

I didn’t buddy.

I think too much changes to predict too far ahead.

For instance before the season started I would probably have had us on 60+ points.

I’ll take 50+ right now if you offered it to me.

Fair enough. Without knowing your opinion of Gerrard going into season and so basing on recent posts I'm not sure I'd have expected 60+ as a prediction. I've been generally more postive on Gerrard and didn't have us down for as many.

Would you be happy with Gerrard staying in post with a 50 point season?

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Agree with that, but I beg to disagree the players are a bad mix. I just think they are being setup wrong. I simply refuse to believe we cant play our best players together at the same time. Maybe I am delusional but these are good players.

I also think Gerrard & staff have been inconsistent. Nakamba for example (obviously there are many more) was being lauded as part of Villa 2.0 last season before his injury. Now he is out of the frame even though fit and even though we have not bought another DM to rotate with Kamara or when we want to play two DM's. It confuses me. I  am not a football professional so my views maybe laughably wrong, but as a fan I dont understand it. 

 

I think confusion, is a bed friend for all of us.

I am not saying anymore on SG.....if the club don't want him they will sack him, if they don't sack him, they will work with him.

not much more to say, really.

[tomsky_11]

9 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

I also think Gerrard & staff have been inconsistent. Nakamba for example (obviously there are many more) was being lauded as part of Villa 2.0 last season before his injury. Now he is out of the frame even though fit and even though we have not bought another DM to rotate with Kamara or when we want to play two DM's. It confuses me. I  am not a football professional so my views maybe laughably wrong, but as a fan I dont understand it.

I don't think this is particularly inconsistent from Gerrard or hard to understand personally.

Nakamba started those first games because he was the best fit for the role from the players available. He did well and retained place until injured, but I suspect view was always it was a position that could be improved upon, especially compared to others. Later, less convincing cameos on return from injury, plus the progress of Iroegbunam probably cemented this view.

We have not bought Kamara to rotate and there's no point bringing in a backup until unless/until we sell Nakamba and/or loan Iroegbunam. And I don't think he's the right type of player or good enough ultimately to play alongside Kamara if Gerrard does decide to got with two holding midfielders at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if he was retained or sold, but would be surprised if we bought someone else in primarily as backup.

For me, there's little to criticise Gerrard over here.

[bannedfromHandV]

26 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Me either. I just want him to fix things, but my doubts that he can do so are growing, while our chances of European football are receding.

We are going to have to choose as a club whether this is another rebuild season or its a season we are going to  challenge for Europe. If its the latter which we were told then Gerrard has very little time. if its the former then the club needs to reset the expectations they have set for fans. 

 

By doing what? Releasing a statement saying ‘due to a poorer than anticipated start to the season we’re now just going to try and avoid relegation, thanks’ ? 

[ciggiesnbeer]

29 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

I don't think this is particularly inconsistent from Gerrard or hard to understand personally.

Nakamba started those first games because he was the best fit for the role from the players available. He did well and retained place until injured, but I suspect view was always it was a position that could be improved upon, especially compared to others. Later, less convincing cameos on return from injury, plus the progress of Iroegbunam probably cemented this view.

We have not bought Kamara to rotate and there's no point bringing in a backup until unless/until we sell Nakamba and/or loan Iroegbunam. And I don't think he's the right type of player or good enough ultimately to play alongside Kamara if Gerrard does decide to got with two holding midfielders at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if he was retained or sold, but would be surprised if we bought someone else in primarily as backup.

For me, there's little to criticise Gerrard over here.

Thanks, thats a fair and insightful explanation that helps me process it. Cheers!

[ciggiesnbeer]

18 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

By doing what? Releasing a statement saying ‘due to a poorer than anticipated start to the season we’re now just going to try and avoid relegation, thanks’ ? 

As you know they set expectations via interviews & comments with Purslow and to a lesser extend Gerrard. They were specifically mentioned when bringing in Kamara. And to be fair to Gerrard , Purslow and Dean Smith also set those expectations remember "Jack is 18 months ahead of where we want to be" when he left? I do.

Till those expectations are changed we should just assume that the aim for this season is Europe then? I am glad the club continues to be confident! I am excited to see the march to europe this season! Bring on West Ham, next up on the chopping block!

[ender4]

1 hour ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Agree with that, but I beg to disagree the players are a bad mix. I just think they are being setup wrong. I simply refuse to believe we cant play our best players together at the same time. Maybe I am delusional but these are good players.

I also think Gerrard & staff have been inconsistent. Nakamba for example (obviously there are many more) was being lauded as part of Villa 2.0 last season before his injury. Now he is out of the frame even though fit and even though we have not bought another DM to rotate with Kamara or when we want to play two DM's. It confuses me. I  am not a football professional so my views maybe laughably wrong, but as a fan I dont understand it. 

 

The other issue is that those players obviously under-achieved last year.  They should have easily been good for an extra 5-10 points which would have been too half.

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 minute ago, ender4 said:

The other issue is that those players obviously under-achieved last year.  They should have easily been good for an extra 5-10 points which would have been too half.

Thats absolutely fair. I dont blame Gerrard for players throwing away points and having bad games last season. I do blame him for picking one of them as Captain though. if anyone needed to focus on their game it was McGinn. But its early days in McGinns captaincy and of course I want him to succeed and lead us to europe. 

[Thug]

1 hour ago, tomsky_11 said:

Fair enough. Without knowing your opinion of Gerrard going into season and so basing on recent posts I'm not sure I'd have expected 60+ as a prediction. I've been generally more postive on Gerrard and didn't have us down for as many.

Would you be happy with Gerrard staying in post with a 50 point season?

My point is that I would have been very optimistic, probably over optimistic before the start of the season. 
Losing Grealish and replacing him with Ings, Buendia, Bailey, Kamara, Carlos should really have seen us improve on the points score that Smith managed. 
But clearly he was a better player for us than even we gave him credit for.

wouod I be ‘happy’ with 50 points? Not really.  But the way we’re playing I think I’d snap your hand off.  Whilst not great, I don’t think 50 would be sack-worthy.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I’ve tolerated a lot and defended him way more than I should. But now i hear he wants to sell Archer and even offered to drive him to his new club I’ve had enough.  Sack him now!

[bannedfromHandV]

48 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

As you know they set expectations via interviews & comments with Purslow and to a lesser extend Gerrard. They were specifically mentioned when bringing in Kamara. And to be fair to Gerrard , Purslow and Dean Smith also set those expectations remember "Jack is 18 months ahead of where we want to be" when he left? I do.

Till those expectations are changed we should just assume that the aim for this season is Europe then? I am glad the club continues to be confident! I am excited to see the march to europe this season! Bring on West Ham, next up on the chopping block!

The aim for the club will never be anything other than winning as many games as possible. Who buys into or listens to the rhetoric around Europe etc anyway? It’s always the same old shit from all clubs with an outside ambition of breaking into the top 6 (now the top 7 seemingly, with Newcastle already being treated as if they’re dining at the top table).

I couldn’t give a toss what the club or the manager says, managers in particular have to do so many interviews now it’s rare you’ll get anything beyond well rehearsed sound bites.

All that matters is what happens on the pitch.

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

Agree, I think we'd be a laughing stock for future managers if we sacked him 3 games into a season where we've asked him to rebuild and set a certain style of football.

We asked him to rebuild? Really. I thought we had a squad that the last manager wasn't getting the best out of. I don't remember the idea of rebuilding being part of the plan. 

[GingerCollins29]

6 hours ago, tomsky_11 said:

What's par for you?

Agree some decision making has been bad, but can understand why was made in some cases. Like starting Bailey over Watkins vs Bournemouth. Entirely wrong decision IMO but understand why wanted to do it given Bailey's good preseason and tough time last season.

Not sure what this refers to beyond the Mings thing that was clearly made out to be a lot more than it was.

Has he? Who should have played more than they have?

I'm not sure it falls on him if we sign no one else because we are clearly looking at players in multiple positions, it's up to others to find the right deal to get them here. I'd be surprised if we didn't do something in the next week.

Irrespective of performances/style, how many points would be minimum from next 6 games?

Par for me would be a min of 6 points from those first 3 with steady to good performances, that show a clear improvement on the style of play SG wants to employ from last year.

I was referring to his treatment of Mings and Sanson.

Archer should have played more, particularly if SG wants two up top and watkins has been woeful for some time.

By signing no more players, SG is effectively saying "I have what I need", which is clearly not enough for a top 10 finish or better.

From the next 6, I think he needs 8 as a bare minimum to get more time. I think we'll get 5 or less.

[tomsky_11]

1 minute ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Par for me would be a min of 6 points from those first 3 with steady to good performances, that show a clear improvement on the style of play SG wants to employ from last year.

I agree on the first three games, but I guess I meant over a longer period, ie. to date under Gerrard we are 1.27ppg which would equate to about 48 points over a season. To me this doesn’t feel too far off the 50-60 range where I think the squad should be. It’s obviously below that but not by much, certainly not enough for me to be worried just yet.

8 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

I was referring to his treatment of Mings and Sanson.

Figured the Mings thing which I personally don’t see a massive issue with. Gerrard gave him plenty of time to prove his captaincy credentials and ultimately is entitled to change change things up with this. And I think the comments in the press go a bit overplayed as more than they were.

On Sanson, not sure I see the issue either, unless I’ve missed something. He’s had chances and hasn’t performed especially well IMO. And the statistical evidence from his performances seems to back this up. Discussed this recently in his thread with reference to the Wolves game amongst others, where it was pointed out he was voted motm on here and McGinn by comparison was heavily slated. But just about every performance metric put McGinn way beyond Sanson. Watching back the extended highlights of the game also seemed to back the stats.

19 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Archer should have played more, particularly if SG wants two up top and watkins has been woeful for some time.

This season? We are only three games in. Last season he was correctly sent out on loan to get game time. Watkins has improved since Gerrard arrived compared to poor start to last season, and I think is operating about the same level as his first season in terms of goals and chance creation. And the Ings Watkins partnership has been our most successful attacking set up by far. One fair criticism of Gerrard I think is that it hasn’t been utilised more. Watkins absolutely should have started the Bournemouth game for example. And if Archer sticks around this season he’ll get chances I’m sure.

On other youths, he seems to have been more than willing to get the best ones experience around the first team, with plenty involved preseason, Ramsey probably getting more playing time than he should have last season. Iroegbunam getting a start and being around the first team.

32 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

By signing no more players, SG is effectively saying "I have what I need", which is clearly not enough for a top 10 finish or better.

Not sure there’s any value in saying this until the window is closed. And even then it’s fairly clear I think that Gerrard still wants to improve in certain areas. If we don’t sign anyone else in the next week (which would honestly surprise me) I doubt it will have been for lack of pushing from Gerrard. And honestly I think what we do have already players wise is good enough to achieve top 10. That’s my expectation this season even without more signings, and I’m sure it’s the club’s too.

38 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

From the next 6, I think he needs 8 as a bare minimum to get more time. I think we'll get 5 or less.

I said minimum 7 elsewhere so not far off here. I hope and think we will pass that, certainly not expecting 5 points or fewer from these games.

[Jas10]

 No idea who this is but I have to agree:

 

[messi11]

6 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

 No idea who this is but I have to agree:

 

He is spot on! "Massive underachievers" with the squad we've got.

Gerrard still got time to put it right and shut us all up. Massive game on Sunday. 3 games in a week aswell. 

[Jas10]

 

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Jas10 said:

 

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