Steven Gerrard

[Wurzel]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Playing well and losing, is a misnomer......you only play well, when you win.

The game is about attacking and defending and to win,regualrly,  you have to be competent at both.

 

Each to their own, I have seen many decent team performances that result in a loss. 

[daft]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Very on brand with your avatar tbf

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel now. Thanks guys.

[Lerner's Driver]

I don't know why people keep saying he speaks well, to me he just sounds like a Scouser spouting a bunch of corporate motivational cliches that aren't f***** working.

He says it with a steely stare and people assume he means business, then his team produces that meaningless crap. Stevie's on the make, laa'.

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

 

He says it with a steely stare

Wouldn't know, I've never had the balls to look him in the eyes

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I was ok with team selection.  

Yes it had issues re height and some players not starting.  

That is deflecting from the issue, that team we put out should’ve beaten Bournemouth.  

That team we put out was a lot stronger than Bournemouth’s plus the subs we brought on.  

Yes we have midfield balance issues, we didn’t have enough height and we can’t create anything but we played into their hands, we didn’t play our game (not that I know what our game is) but we certainly had enough talent on the pitch to win that game.

He may have got the team selection slightly wrong which we all agree and even more so in hindsight but forget that for the moment, the team out there was more than enough to win that game.  

We weren’t playing a top six team, we weren’t even playing a mid table team, we were playing a newly promoted team that have serious issues at the moment.

The issue we have is cohesion, style of play, tactics and everything else re playing the actual match.  The pieces (the footballers) we good enough but the game play was poor and that is on Gerrard’s shoulders and nothing has changed from last season to this and it’s wearing thin on me because he doesn’t seem to know or able to change it/fix it.

Nick, I am not going to attempt to give SG a "get out of Jail card"......But we have seen this under Dean Smith too.....Watford,  away.....Leeds.......The Wolves capitulation......Granted, Its still there, and it shouldn't be.

We shouldn't have lost to Bournemouth, absolutely no doubt, but if you play like we did, you should....our team is better, but Aerially, its not and they chose to exploit that.......We was better than Watford first game last season, but still they exploited us, again under a different Manager and put us to the sword.

I am not professing to know the answer.....It may be a combination of things, but to soley blame the managers in both cases, is an easy cop out IMO.

I know and we all know, that managers ultimately take the responsibility, there is no other way.....but if we keep doing the same things, signing, similar kind of players, who can't deal with glaring issues, don't be surprised if a next manager fails too.

Edited August 8, 2022 by TRO

[WallisFrizz]

So..at least the next press conference will be interesting. Wonder what he’ll say about it..

It’s been very quiet from the Villa SM accounts today unsurprising. I’m trying to guess how they’re going to tackle the uproar the loss and the Mings debacle has caused…a training video in which Mings and Gerrard are seen getting on like a house on fire? Or a leaked story to the press? Or just complete radio silence and a ramped up performance against Everton? 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, daft said:

Yeah, I really want you to be right.

But reading all this about Gerrard with players falling out, being sent to play with the kids, no tactical understanding (which few English managers have tbf) etc. 

It really worries me how they owner could allow Purslow to **** up that bad.

I hope it's just temporary despair, but we feel properly ****. 

We had all this with Arteta and Aubameyang......folk calling for his head.

Managers have to be allowed to manage.....and it is customary/prudent to pick the right time for a fight.

Maybe he has been a bit paly last season.....won a bit of rapport and is now stamping his authority.

Only time will tell.

but if we are backing players over managers, that too is a slippery slop.....We simply don't know enough of the workings at BMH...so we are all just speculating.

He could be an ****hole for all I know or he could be a really decent fella.......The club will know and I trust them, like the Arsenal club knew a bit more than the fans too, with Arteta.

Strong management, is rarely popular with the ill informed....but can be popular with the informed.

Edited August 8, 2022 by TRO

[rodders0223]

59 minutes ago, blandy said:

He’s been making them for 7 or 8 months. Over and over.

I disagree completely about signing players with no fight. It’s complete nonsense. I feel they don’t believe in the way the team is set up and this causes doubt in their minds and it leads to too many instances of starting tentatively and conceding early goals. The players are way ahead of the fans in seeing which of Gerrard’s  selections, his decisions and all the rest play out. What it takes us a little while to pick up, they pick up much more quickly because they’re out there having to put it into action.

To demonstrate this, have a look at how we’ve been able to come back from being 2 goals down, twice recently against Man U, when Gerrard has made changes. It’s to his credit that he’s made the changes, but it’s also a concern that he then reverts back to how it was for the next game, in terms of his plans and player selection.

He’s making a lot of obviously bad decisions.

Emi comes into the side has a complete stormer ? We look more balanced and more creative and more energetic and we get a great result?

 

Time to bring back me mate Coutinho who has been rotten for 2 months the next game.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Each to their own, I have seen many decent team performances that result in a loss. 

as you say.

but decent is one thing......good is another.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Nick, I am not going to attempt to give SG a "get out of Jail card"......But we have seen this under Dean Smith too.....Watford,  away.....Leeds.......The Wolves capitulation......Granted, Its still there, and it shouldn't be.

We shouldn't have lost to Bournemouth, absolutely no doubt, but if you play like we did, you should....our team is better, but Aerially, its not and they chose to exploit that.......We was better than Watford first game last season, but still they exploited us, again under a different Manager and put us to the sword.

I am not professing to know the answer.....It may be a combination of things, but to soley blame the managers in both cases, is an easy cop out IMO.

I know and we all know, that managers ultimately take the responsibility, there is no other way.....but if we keep doing the same things, signing, similar kind of players, who can't deal with glaring issues, don't be surprised if a next manager fails too.

No argument the height is an issue, my point is the team we put out should’ve still beat Bournemouth but it didn’t.  

It allowed them to use the aerial game, it allowed them to sit deep because we didn’t know how to break them down, our players didn’t work well enough together to cut them open and our quality of play was poor.  

Yes height is a problem but we allowed them to make it enough of a problem to win the game.  

Our press, quality of creativity should’ve had them on the back foot that we should’ve carved them open.  

Of course they are likely to score a aerial goal but we offered nothing in return and with the talent we had on the pitch we should’ve made them play our game rather than us playing their aerial game.

We have a height problem but that was far from the issue that lost us the game.  Our talent and play should’ve got us back into the game after the early goal and then go onto win it but we had no play.  

[Keyblade]

21 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

I don't know why people keep saying he speaks well, to me he just sounds like a Scouser spouting a bunch of corporate motivational cliches that aren't f***** working.

He says it with a steely stare and people assume he means business, then his team produces that meaningless crap. Stevie's on the make, laa'.

I know someone else mentioned this, but it's high time we stopped putting stock into what managers say in the press. It's mostly waffle. I was guilty of this too. It seemed like he knew what he was talking about at first glance. Then you look back and it's really just a lot of empty platitudes. Which is fine if you're producing on the pitch. But when you're not, it makes you look like a chancer. I honestly don't see how he's much different to Tim Sherwood, who we all mercilessly deride as being a charlatan. 

[ender4]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

We had all this with Arteta and Aubameyang......folk calling for his head.

Managers have to be allowed to manage.....and in it is customary to pick the right time for a fight.

Maybe he has been a bit paly last season.....won a bit of rapport and is now stamping his authority.

Only time will tell.

but if we are backing players over managers, that too is a slippery slop.....We simply don't know enough of the workings at BMH...so we are all just speculating.

He could be an ****hole for all I know of he could be a really decent fella.......The club will know and I trust them, like the Arsenal club knew a bit more than the fans too, with Arteta.

Strong management, is rarely popular with the ill informed....but can be popular with the informed.

Thank you, that’s a really good point that I hadn’t considered.

[Brumstopdogs]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Nick, I am not going to attempt to give SG a "get out of Jail card"......But we have seen this under Dean Smith too.....Watford,  away.....Leeds.......The Wolves capitulation......Granted, Its still there, and it shouldn't be.

We shouldn't have lost to Bournemouth, absolutely no doubt, but if you play like we did, you should....our team is better, but Aerially, its not and they chose to exploit that.......We was better than Watford first game last season, but still they exploited us, again under a different Manager and put us to the sword.

I am not professing to know the answer.....It may be a combination of things, but to soley blame the managers in both cases, is an easy cop out IMO.

I know and we all know, that managers ultimately take the responsibility, there is no other way.....but if we keep doing the same things, signing, similar kind of players, who can't deal with glaring issues, don't be surprised if a next manager fails too.

Agree with the majority of that.

Just on the last paragraph given Gerrard himself identified we lacked stature (West Ham away last season) and how they were better than us at defending set pieces and crosses.

IMO if we're singing similar players (and Gerrard has a say in who we buy) who are not rectifying these deficiencies then Gerrard has to take a big portion of the blame for that (aswell as whoever else is involved).

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I know someone else mentioned this, but it's high time we stopped putting stock into what managers say in the press. It's mostly waffle. I was guilty of this too. It seemed like he knew what he was talking about at first glance. Then you look back and it's really just a lot of empty platitudes. Which is fine if you're producing on the pitch. But when you're not, it makes you look like a chancer. I honestly don't see how he's much different to Tim Sherwood, who we all mercilessly deride as being a charlatan. 

Football is an industry with huge money involved. Players and managers are either media trained, or advised to say certain things by agents and clubs. The media coverage is intense and everyone wants to paint a good picture of themselves to further their career. No one says what they actually think.

Even when playing FIFA career mode, you learn to say the ”correct” cliches in post game interviews.

tl;dr  It’s all just empty words

[WallisFrizz]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

but if we are backing players over managers, that too is a slippery slop.....We simply don't know enough of the workings at BMH...so we are all just speculating.

This is true. Dean Smith seemed like a completely lovely bloke and I think even he fell out with Mings towards the end. So maybe there is an issue that needed addressing with Mings. I just don’t like that it has been done so publically. The carrot of the captaincy has been dangled in front of him for ages then stripping it of him, then the little dig in the media.

SG might be completely right but no need to wash your dirty linen in public.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

No argument the height is an issue, my point is the team we put out should’ve still beat Bournemouth but it didn’t.  

It allowed them to use the aerial game, it allowed them to sit deep because we didn’t know how to break them down, our players didn’t work well enough together to cut them open and our quality of play was poor.  

Yes height is a problem but we allowed them to make it enough of a problem to win the game.  

Our press, quality of creativity should’ve had them on the back foot that we should’ve carved them open.  

Of course they are likely to score a aerial goal but we offered nothing in return and with the talent we had on the pitch we should’ve made them play our game rather than us playing their aerial game.

We have a height problem but that was far from the issue that lost us the game.  Our talent and play should’ve got us back into the game after the early goal and then go onto win it but we had no play.  

I agree with you 99%

The fact is, in the absence of us imposing our game.....Height became the central Issue.....they made it that way....they imposed themselves, we didn't.

I have said many, many times on here, about seizing the initiative.....we didn't, we handed it over to them, by way of them pressing us, and we allowed it......We are simply too easy to stop playing......we are great, when no one is near us i.e Southampton at Home.....but in our face and we are toast, ....we need players to help us with that.....Kamara is just one.

Look, around at how many team like Newcastle and West Ham, have brutes, who can deal with it.....Even Pep waking up to the threat of physical No9's......Klopp with Nunez too.....sure they are Elite, but look at the size of them.....our team is puny.

Its a huge task to hold off a player, who is physically superior, and talent alone doesn't always suffice.

We need to re-examine the profile of the team.....I think Newcastle are going down the right road, and they are still WIP like us......Before Jan last season, Howe never won a game, his signings were apt, even if they wasn't Elite.

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by TRO

[nick76]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I agree with you 99%

The fact is, in the absence of us imposing our game.....Height became to central Issue.....they made it that way.

I have said many, many times on here, about seizing the initiative.....we didn't, we handed it over to them, by way of them pressing us, and we allowed it......We are simply too easy to stop playing......we are great, when no one is near us i.e Southampton at Home.....but in our face and we are toast, ....we need players to help us with that.....Kamara is just one.

Look, around at how many team like Newcastle and West Ham, have brutes, who can deal with it.....Even Pep waking up to the threat of physical No9's......Klopp with Nunez too.....sure they are Elite, but look at the size of them.....our team is puny.

Its a huge task to hold off a player, who is physically superior, and talent alone doesn't always suffice.

We need to re-examine the profile of the team.....I think Newcastle are going down the right road, and they are still WIP like us......Before Jan last season, Howe never won a game, his signings were apt, even if they wasn't Elite.

 

I think you are focusing too much on the players rather than what Gerrard is not doing!  It’s deflecting from the general cohesion and play of this team.  The players were good enough with the qualities they had to win this game.

(I agree with the height thing generally though)

[sharkyvilla]

45 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

I don't know why people keep saying he speaks well, to me he just sounds like a Scouser spouting a bunch of corporate motivational cliches that aren't f***** working.

He says it with a steely stare and people assume he means business, then his team produces that meaningless crap. Stevie's on the make, laa'.

He's perfected the most unconvincing 'it's on me' in all of football whenever talking after a defeat.  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

14 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think you are focusing too much on the players rather than what Gerrard is not doing!  It’s deflecting from the general cohesion and play of this team.  The players were good enough with the qualities they had to win this game.

(I agree with the height thing generally though)

Agree with both you and @TRO

I actually think it's a mixture of BOTH the stature and his selections.

If you are going with the selections he goes with only to ponder at a snails pace against brutes it makes no sense.

Edit: Never realised JJ and McGinn were in the bottom 15 percent in the League for pass completion

There's half the problem ffs

Edited August 8, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[thunderball]

3 hours ago, Villatillidie95 said:

Richard Keys and Simon Jordan are bang on in their comments. I know Keys is an arrogant so and so, however he is right in the sense that Gerrard has mucked up and made a big call which has backfired. Split the dressing room down the middle, you will have pro and anti mings factions, divisions in the squad with players sitting separately in their own groups in the canteen, on the coaches. The most prescient thing he said is that small problems snowball and turn into bigger issues. We cannot regress and let that happen, we all remember the toxicity of the 15/16 season.

Simon Jordan said there is very real jeopardy on Gerrard at this moment in time and its true, its not only us supporters who are seeing the signs, others in the game or those who are connected to it are not hearing good things about the dressing room at this moment in time which is very concerning for our prospects this season.

need to nip it in the bud now before it spirals

Admit it, Mings was part of the problem we have, a big call has been made, he brought in Carlos as competition for Mings on the LHS CB. Mings distribution was poor, he is ponderous/dangerous on the ball, we all know he has a mistake in him and has cost us goals and games, he is not effective offensively from set pieces for someone his size. I see no issue with Carlos getting a crack? 

Hopefully Mings is unburdened enough to recover his game and improve. That way the club and the player wins?