Steven Gerrard

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

10 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

if you ignore the three wins in a row, yeah

 

Or running the likes of Man City extremely close.

Or having Spurs parking the bus for 45 minutes etc. For example.

There are multiple other games we only lost due to pathetic individual errors, slippage, poor finishing etc ( similarly under Deano to be fair to him )

Look we all agree that things are poor right now and we need to see improvement, have some system and man management concerns etc. but some of the hyperbole man

Edited April 18, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Davkaus]

Maybe we can put out an end of season DVD of all of our valiant losses. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

No. 2012-2016 were bad years.2021 was mediocre

We beat Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and United in 2021

2022 is looking a bad year 

We are just finished week 15 of the year, so lots more games to be played and have about the same ppg as last year and last year wasn't a bad year and this year is looking like one. I am not sure I understand the logic. 

[jim]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Or running the likes of Man City extremely close.

Or having Spurs parking the bus for 45 minutes etc. For example.

 

That’s the classic Conte tactic don’t you know?

Allow the opposition to get great goal scoring situations but rely on them fluffing their lines. It’s on Gerrard that he played into their hands.

[IrishVilla10]

3 minutes ago, Newry_Villan said:

Ah that changes everything. He changes tactics for them 3 games and then reverts back to that Christmas tree formation. Seems like stubbornness to me. Should play to the strengths of the squad not force formations and tactics for which we don't have the players. 

Just an example of him getting a tune out of the squad that’s all. Also he didn’t change it after the 3 wins, we lost against West Ham then it changed 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think a lot of people are ignoring, deliberately or otherwise, that Purslow employed SG in the full knowledge that he is a young manager and inexperienced in the PL. Even when the SG announcement was made Purslow stated (I am paraphrasing here) that it is SG's attitude to football, his desire to win and his pedigree as a winner that made SG a standout candidate for the job. Everyone in the media and everyone on here debated SG's inexperience. It is naïve to think CP expected SG to become an error free PL manager overnight. SG has only managed in the PL for 20 games and he is still learning as a manager. As long as SG sticks to his principles his job at Villa is safe till at least next Oct/Nov regardless of remaining results this season. Just like NSWE and CP  gave Deano time, they will also give SG time. If u are not a fan on SG, be prepared for a lot longer having to see him as our manager.

All good points.

But given the short term tenure of a typical manager in prem what are we gaining by employing someone with only nominal experience ? 

Oct/November isn't actually that far away - the problem with giving him that long is that we would yet again be looking for a replacement mid season.

Unless results are truly terrible - or he is making too many waves behind the scenes then of course he starts next season.

 

 

[Peter Griffin]

5 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

FFS.Surely he should be given "at least"one full season.

What the squad is doing now ( not turning up for games ) they were doing under D.S. and he was in charge for 3 years.I didnt see it but apparently when he bought Norwich to VP a banner was unfurled for him.So, taking all that into consideration,how high did we finish under D.S, how much " total" did he spend and what did we achieve from all that ?  

Fans view on giving a manager more time very often comes down to their thoughts on the manager as a person rather than their thoughts as a football manager. Nearly everyone liked Deano and wanted to give him more time, people don't like SG and therefore don't want to give him more time. Fortunately, it looks like the people managing our football club make their decisions on how they see the club and the manager progressing rather than personal feelings.

[DaveAV1]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Ok while some of it is true. In comparison our current manager is on month 4 of poor results and we look like making no progress and also on the verge of losing 4 on a row

He also doesn't even have the credit in the bank Smith had

Dean took over a very poor side and struggled for a while until taking us on that amazing ten game run culminating in our promotion. 
 

He then had the difficult job of keeping us up. He managed that in dramatic circumstances which again was wonderful, but nobody would have been surprised if he’d been released if lockdown hadn’t intervened. The start of last season again saw amazing results but form fell away pretty sharply. A Brentford fan came on here when Dean arrived and said that we’d go on great runs of results and terrible runs too. To be honest that pretty much summed up his time here. 
 

I don’t know if SG can improve us, but I know he and anyone else needs time and a chance to reshape the squad. I know you and some other posters don’t like him, mainly because you bring it up a fair bit. However the board have just made a huge announcement on massive redevelopment, so to think that they haven’t done due diligence on his appointment is probably incorrect. To think that recruitment policy is being made on the hoof is also doubtful or that they haven’t factored in the constant variables of what happens on the pitch, both positive and negative. The good news for you is that there will be no sentimentality involved and he understands the price of failure. The less good news, for you at least, is that they understand the size of the task and afford him the time to properly undertake that task. 

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

All good points.

But given the short term tenure of a typical manager in prem what are we gaining by employing someone with only nominal experience ? 

Oct/November isn't actually that far away - the problem with giving him that long is that we would yet again be looking for a replacement mid season.

Unless results are truly terrible - or he is making too many waves behind the scenes then of course he starts next season.

 

 

Potential. I think Artetas a good example of what can happen 

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, hippo said:

All good points.

But given the short term tenure of a typical manager in prem what are we gaining by employing someone with only nominal experience ? 

Oct/November isn't actually that far away - the problem with giving him that long is that we would yet again be looking for a replacement mid season.

Unless results are truly terrible - or he is making too many waves behind the scenes then of course he starts next season.

 

 

It is only short term if the CEO and owners elect it to be short term. Villa do not have to do a Watford if we do not want to. If NSWE and CP believe that SG is the man to bring Villa forward and believe he needs more time to get it right then they can give him more time. NSWE and CP do not need to be influuenced by other's actions.

 

The reason for Oct/Nov is to give him a fair crack at season 2, following a summer window and a preseason. If we are relegation candidates then CP may be forced to act. I don't believe that to be the case and I can see SG getting all of next season to show CP his development as a PL football manager

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Tried to avoid all things Villa the last 2 weeks, now realise why I did, everything still very negative and the Spurs result was embarrassing even though we never in a million years deserved to lose 4-0 (if at all). Any more defeats like that though and Gerrard's popularity will continue to wane like it has the past 3 months. 

 

I feel of the last 7 games this season if Gerrard doesn’t win at least 3 of them against the likes of Norwich, Burnley and Palace then we should be looking for a new manager come the summer. I really think any more poor results and confidence will start to be lost in him because we haven’t progressed at all under him in nearly 6 months.

 

When Smith left we were 15^th and largely considered to be underperforming, Gerrard has been here nearly 6 months and we are…..15^th. We sacked Smith because the owners/Purslow didn’t like losing 5 games in a row, having teams put 4 past us on our own patch, averaging a point a game in the calendar year….but that’s exactly what we’re doing under Gerrard too in 2022. Take away those 12 points from his opening 6 games (when I genuinely believe those results were a consequence of a new manager bounce and managers having not figured his style out yet), we’ve taken 14 points from 14 games in 2022 as well as losing a cup game. I’m sorry but that is no better than Smith and unless we’re employing double standards then I don’t understand why we would show any more patience to Gerrard.

 

I say this with no exaggeration, this season feels almost as disappointing as the one where we went down. Of course not as humiliating, but to counter that we had poor ownership, the club as a whole was rotten, and generally a poor squad that season (even though our summer 2015 dealings were in hindsight actually quite good given the vast majority of those signings have gone on to have very good careers). Despite losing Grealish last summer, and even despite not signing a CM which we really should have done, I did not expect us to be anywhere near as bad as we have been this season. An optimist would have said 7^th or 8^th at the start of the season, a pessimist 11th or 12^th, but I don’t think anyone would think we’d be 15^th and below some pretty bad teams (Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle). I also can’t believe Wolves are so far ahead of us, it’s embarrassing, we finished 10 points ahead of them last season and their owners pulled back on investing 2 years ago.

 

So is it the players or the manager? Well I definitely think our players are mentally weak and absolutely spineless, but I don’t think Gerrard’s management is helping them. I don’t think anyone has performed better than they were under Smith since Gerrard came in with the possible exception of Ramsey and maybe Cash going forward. This squad is not a 15^th placed squad at all, it should be several places higher, and in terms of underachievement this season only Everton could say they have performed worse than us compared to what was expected of them. And Everton are an absolute shambles.

 

I haven’t watched the last 3 games but I’ll reluctantly tune in at the weekend against Leicester. Gerrard needs to get at least a point and stop this horrible rot or surely they will have to start questioning if they made a mistake appointing him. He was always a risky appointment, we appointed a rookie with no experience of top-level football except in a league that is no better than League 1, we should have gone all out to bring a high-profile manager in and then maybe this season would not have been such a sh*t show.  

I think you answer your own questions and still can't see it.....sure right now, we are all frustrated and peed off....but, just a few pointers to ponder.

• Those teams ( Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle) are not bad teams, lets get that clear.
• Would Howe have saved Newcastle with the same players, left by Bruce.
• Our season has not finished yet, and we are in a bad rut.
• The last game (Spurs) we didn't deserve to lose like that from an offensive point of view....from a defensive point of view, in view of our actions, we did.
• We are in a Dull place right now, we all agree on that, but to keep speculating if Gerrard does this or Gerrard does that, he will be gone, is not helping anything.
• If we keep defending like we do, we won't win another game this season....I feel sure about that....because we can't outscore our defensive inefficiences.
• Watch carefully the both games against Spurs from a defensive point of view ( Brighton and Villa) and tell me what observations you make....tell me what differences you see, (apart from the 3-5-2) for Brighton, relating to the play.
• There is nothing to suggest a top manager, would have been in a different position, with the same team SG has inherited.....Why did Unai Emery and Carlos Anchelloti, not do better, with Arsenal and Everton, if that has credence, they are top managers.....they are doing alright now, with different players and different teams.
• The disappointment is getting the better of some of us, and distorting our views accordingly.....Watch the games back and see the incidents that lead to conceding goals, sometimes you can only take the horse to the water, you can't make it drink.

I think, without the introduction of the players Eddie Howe has brought in, blended and is getting effective performances from....They could easily have gone down....Do I it think he would have done it without the investment, No ,I don't.

Managers can only do so much....why is Sean Dyche, suddenly no good?

I also think Dean got the balance wrong too, despite being a generally good manager, and it cost him his job, IMO

For what its worth, I am not sure Lucas Digne was the right signing either....but maybe time will tell, if SG just stole the moment for his future building plans......but right now, its made us defensively worse..IMO

 

 

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Fans view on giving a manager more time very often comes down to their thoughts on the manager as a person rather than their thoughts as a football manager. Nearly everyone liked Deano and wanted to give him more time, people don't like SG and therefore don't want to give him more time. Fortunately, it looks like the people managing our football club make their decisions on how they see the club and the manager progressing rather than personal feelings.

Sure yeah fans can come here shout Gerarrd out - crack one off, fall asleep take a dump - life goes on.

The owners of the club have to take a lot more measured approach. What Is really don't get is why they went for a guy who one day wasn't overly popular with the fans ?

It's not as if Gerrard is going to fall in love with Aston villa and be here for the next 10 years...

The whole thing has got an uneasy feel about it 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Look lads I:

- Never wanted Bruce

- Dean Smith was far from my first choice-

- Steven Gerrard was far from my first choice.

However the one thing I did with all and will continue to do, was give them ample time and space before attempting to make fair assessments of them, write them off, or hail them saviours.

That means, even supporting them during tough and disheartening bad runs.

However once time is up, it's up, unless you're McLeish of course. That was probably the only Manager I cringed about non stop.

 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Masterclass.

Lure the opposition into a false sense of security by allowing them to pepper your goal, whilst giving the goalkeeper a training session.

Then boom!

And compare the experience of Conte to the experience of SG. The hope is that SG will learn from these games and will develop. Sir Alex was on the verge of getting sacked only to get a win against Forest (if I recall correctly) in the FA Cup and he turned out okay for Man Utd

[hippo]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Look lads I:

- Never wanted Bruce

- Dean Smith was far from my first choice-

- Steven Gerrard was far from my first choice.

However the one thing I did with all and will continue to do, was give them ample time and space before attempting to make fair assessments of them, write them off, or hail them saviours.

That means, even supporting them during tough and disheartening bad runs.

However once time is up, it's up, unless you're McLeish of course. That was probably the only Manager I cringed about non stop.

 

Problem with ample time though - is that should Gerrard bomb early next season - we have all his signings and have to recruit a manager mid season.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Sure yeah fans can come here shout Gerarrd out - crack one off, fall asleep take a dump - life goes on.

The owners of the club have to take a lot more measured approach. What Is really don't get is why they went for a guy who one day wasn't overly popular with the fans ?

It's not as if Gerrard is going to fall in love with Aston villa and be here for the next 10 years...

The whole thing has got an uneasy feel about it 

NSWE and CP are not stupid and they stand to gain or lose a hell of a lot of cash by selecting the wrong manager. It is reasonable to assume that they employed SG because they believed he is the right man to take Villa forward. They have proven to Villa fans in the past that they are good decision makers and that they have patience.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Just now, hippo said:

Problem with ample time though - is that should Gerrard bomb early next season - we have all his signings and have to recruit a manager mid season.

I get your concerns, but again, this is where we have to trust that the board are on point with their behind the scenes decision making on signings, foundations and contingency plans etc 

Surely THEY have more than ample credit in the bank?

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

Problem with ample time though - is that should Gerrard bomb early next season - we have all his signings and have to recruit a manager mid season.

I don’t get the worry with this. I think we’re going to sign some quality players. And if it goes tits up I don’t think the team will be in  worse place personnel wise 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I get your concerns, but again, this is where we have to trust that the board are on point with their behind the scenes decision making on signings, foundations and contingency plans etc 

Surely THEY have more than ample credit in the bank?

Agreed.

Can't you recommend a chilled out Jamaican coach to the board ?  - that would be something we could all get behind.

[hippo]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

I don’t get the worry with this. I think we’re going to sign some quality players. And if it goes tits up I don’t think the team will be in  worse place personnel wise 

Let's hope so.