Demitri_C Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: The problem I have is that Leeds run at 100 mph all game so you can kind of understand it. We aren’t like that, in fact sometimes I think we are quite a slow team and not masses of movement. I understand we were better first half against Spurs but that was more about aggression which was great and better play, not a Leeds level of exertion. We worked hard but imo not enough to be so tired second half, I think the early second gold just took the wind out of us mentally. Completely agree nick they are not worked like that so why cant they sustain this for longer than 45 minutes? The 2nd half was a complete crumble job. I do think mentally we have some players that are not strkng enough either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: The problem I have is that Leeds run at 100 mph all game so you can kind of understand it. We aren’t like that, in fact sometimes I think we are quite a slow team and not masses of movement. I understand we were better first half against Spurs but that was more about aggression which was great and better play, not a Leeds level of exertion. We worked hard but imo not enough to be so tired second half, I think the early second gold just took the wind out of us mentally. That seems to be a management thing. Hasnt Ollie pressing stats collapsed. Seems Gerrard wants us to defend deeper and not engage higher up the pitch Buendia, Cash, Ollie and Luiz are probably the only decent pressers we have and teams go past Luiz as he is usually standing alone surrounded by 3. Trez was a useful presser and so was Targett, Grealish for his alleged defensive faults wasn't bad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, hippo said: I think too much is being made of that. I do agree it was the case v spurs though. In general I think one 45 minutes being not being quite as bad as the other 45 minutes is being taken that one of the 45 minutes is definitely good. The recent wolves and Arsenal games being a case in point. I think the sheer ease with which teams cut through us, is having an effect on that. I don't think the 45 mins issue related to the Southampton or Leed games. Its the ease in which we concede is killing the confidence in the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: The problem I have is that Leeds run at 100 mph all game so you can kind of understand it. We aren’t like that, in fact sometimes I think we are quite a slow team and not masses of movement. I understand we were better first half against Spurs but that was more about aggression which was great and better play, not a Leeds level of exertion. We worked hard but imo not enough to be so tired second half, I think the early second gold just took the wind out of us mentally. Don't know I don't watch much football other than Villa. My point is energy levels have to be controlled "Chase every ball" is an often quoted mantra - Do that and will tire yourself chasing mostly lost causes. I do think it significant that we battered Tottenham for most of that first half. But then Spurs mounted an attack just before half time - with a flowing controlled passing movement - where every player looked like they knew what they were supposed to be doing. For me that was a warning and so it proved in the 2nd half. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, nick76 said: also whats the point if he basically plays the same players, if he believes that why doesnt he try some of the other players that are waiting to get game time. Fringe players I assume will be saying "give me a chance" if you believe that and then dont get the chance and the current XI will basically carry on because they dont get dropped. I know we have to wait for the summer for changes but we dont have just 11 good players, we have others that can come in. I do wonder if the higher ups will do what they did last summer and bring in there own staff and remove some of Gerrards like they did with O'Kelly. I think McAllister is the one I would not be against leaving and bringing in a better number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, TRO said: I think the sheer ease with which teams cut through us, is having an effect on that. I don't think the 45 mins issue related to the Southampton or Leed games. Its the ease in which we concede is killing the confidence in the team. Yep - as you said Tro - a couple of long balls from spurs completely split the defence. IMO thats organisation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: I do wonder if the higher ups will do what they did last summer and bring in there own staff and remove some of Gerrards like they did with O'Kelly. I think McAllister is the one I would not be against leaving and bringing in a better number 2. I don't McAllister will leave myself. I do think there will be a turn over on the U23 and medical side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Anything11 said: I think he is stuck as the backup players aren't quite up for it and it risks too much disharmony within the squad to make too many changes. He is trying to get more out of what he has (and not succeeding in doing so consistently). To be a top 8 team we need a top 8 squad which we do not have. Some of these issues are bad recruitment (CMD anyone? Excess forward players?) and others just won't be able to make the step up. I think there are a couple of players that have responded to the rise in expectation (Cash for one) but others are crumbling. It must be very hard to go from the love in that was Smith who reportedly let them train later in the day to SG who by all accounts expects to win and I can imagine is quite intimidating. good post. I too, think he is caught in thought between a rock and a hard place. I think your reference to recruitment has credence......We have been commenting on here for a quality CDM for over 18 months.....thats not good. fans have recognised this, months and months ago.....and while I accept, one player doesn't make a team.....holes left unchecked, can result eventually in the whole team being affected and I think thats is precisely what has happened here. A stitch in time, saves nine......rings loud and clear here, with me.....its been left for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, hippo said: Yep - as you said Tro - a couple of long balls from spurs completely split the defence. IMO thats organisation. It is partly Hippo, and partly poor individual defending.......and the lines in retreat, were non existent.....but we have to be sure, what we are claiming here....they maybe working on that in training and then failing to execute it in a match. Lets be clear here, I am not saying SG is blameless, but equally we have to be sure its ALL his fault. Some of those headers were down to the player, I'm sorry, it was just too plain to see....There was an absence of conviction in the challenges, thats not acceptable. With the journey, we have been on from the Championship to the Premier League......Long balls should be bread and butter to an internationally laden team like ours. While many fans cling to the poor finishing....The defending of routine balls, was abysmal. I can think of many,many managers in my time watching football.....would take action over that alone, I know I would. I would sooner play the kids, than see those lilly livered, offerings. Edited April 13, 2022 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 55 minutes ago, nick76 said: plus professional elite players shouldnt all be shagged after 45 minutes. Not even Liverpool or Man City play with intense high press a whole game, they do it in periods. It's too exhausting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Not even Liverpool or Man City play with intense high press a whole game, they do it in periods. It's too exhausting. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Not even Liverpool or Man City play with intense high press a whole game, they do it in periods. It's too exhausting. I'm not referring to pressing I'm talking about looking shagged. I appreciate the whole high press intensity and that you cant do it in games and only do it in period of plays. Maybe I'm not giving the opposition enough respect but even Gerrard says we only seem to play 45 minutes per game, either first half or second half. I think there is a big difference from what you are saying which is obviously right and what we seem to be producing. I'm not saying we arent fit, but maybe mentally we cant concentrate for the full 90 minutes and I assume part of that is due to confidence, both in the results and that we concede easy but really struggle to score. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_jW Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 6 hours ago, villaglint said: Agreed - you have to remember that even last season it is now pretty obvious the good parts of the season were just riding of Grealishs back. There is a lot of talent in this team, we've been on a journey with them and there is a lot to like. However if we want to break into the upper parts of the league quite a few of them dont have the talent or the mentality to take us there. Dean always said that players had to meet a specific criteria, I suppose "being nice" was at the forefront.... and now, as a collective we are too nice and a soft touch. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dave_jW said: Dean always said that players had to meet a specific criteria, I suppose "being nice" was at the forefront.... and now, as a collective we are too nice and a soft touch. Thats not true since 3 of our last 4 games the opposition fans have accused us of kicking them off the park. Buendia, Mings, Cash are hardly nice guys on the pitch, Emi is one of the biggest windup artists in the league the players Smith wanted to sign as nice he meant not dickheads off the pitch which none of the players above are 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_jW Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Thats not true since 3 of our last 4 games the opposition fans have accused us of kicking them off the park. Buendia, Mings, Cash are hardly nice guys on the pitch, Emi is one of the biggest windup artists in the league the players Smith wanted to sign as nice he meant not dickheads off the pitch which none of the players above are Maybe i should have said " of the right character", so can you tell me why other teams carve us open at will,.......I still say we have no backbone when things aren't going well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Dave_jW said: Maybe i should have said " of the right character", so can you tell me why other teams carve us open at will,.......I still say we have no backbone when things aren't going well. Because we have lined up our midfield that has at times just has one midfielder vs the oppositions 3. Coutinho doesn't really cover and McGinn and Ramsey are playing as covering full backs so its Luiz or Nakamba alone When we stopped doing it for 3 games we won them well with 3 clean sheets 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, nick76 said: I'm not referring to pressing I'm talking about looking shagged. I appreciate the whole high press intensity and that you cant do it in games and only do it in period of plays. Maybe I'm not giving the opposition enough respect but even Gerrard says we only seem to play 45 minutes per game, either first half or second half. I think there is a big difference from what you are saying which is obviously right and what we seem to be producing. I'm not saying we arent fit, but maybe mentally we cant concentrate for the full 90 minutes and I assume part of that is due to confidence, both in the results and that we concede easy but really struggle to score. The thing is Nick, we all talk about confidence like it's a tap to be turned on and off.......it derives from Mental strength. The best players, don't have AS much issue with it. I never once heard folk talk in the day, about Paul McGraths confidence, being missing or present.......such was his consistency, despite his other troubles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted April 13, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, TRO said: we all talk about confidence like it's a tap to be turned on and off.......it derives from Mental strength. It does not derive from mental strength at all. It derives from many things including trust in yourself, trust in your team mates, previous experiences, an understanding of the size of the task ahead. Mental strength is a factor only in so far as a lack of it can lead to confidence being undermined by extraneous circumstances. Confidence is important, but also over-rated. Confidence, when not supported by the reality can be extremely counter productive - "of course Russia will prevail over Ukraine in a matter of 2 or 3 days". Managers can instil a degree of confidence, by getting players to practice things so they become better accomplished at them and feel confident as a result, they can persuade players that they are better than they are, but that only has a temporary effect - everyone's confident until they get punched in the face. The best provider of confidence is evidence - we are confident in our owners because of the evidence of what they've already done and so on. You were (or seemed) very confident indeed as to how good Gerrard would prove to be - are you as confident now, truthfully? and if not are you lacking mental strength, or more likely able to judge/revise your level of confidence based on the evidence of your experience watching his Villa team? Even if you have revised your confidence downwards, because you think "the players aren't good enough" I'd suggest that is similar to footballers looking at their team mates, manager, opposition and feeling a level of confidence on their assessment of their ability to contribute. Hope can be based on mental strength - the desire not to give up, the belief that however ropey things look, there's always a chance. But hope and confidence are not the same thing. I hope I will win the lottery, but I'm not confident (partly because I don't do it). Just my take. 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 8 hours ago, NeilS said: My main issue is how many times do we concede early in a half? Combine this with our inability to turn games around from a losing position, it is really hurting us. We conceded at the beginning of each half against Spurs, but it seems to be a fairly common occurence going back to the first game of the season, where I am sure Watford scored in the first 15 minutes. The players need to be on it from the very first minute, we seem to passive at the beginning and give ourselves a mountain to climb in too many games. I have listed below the games I am talking about. Watford Away concede after 10 mins and lost Brentford Home Concede after 7 mins and draw Chelsea Away concede after 15 mins and lost West Ham Home concede after 7 mins and lost Southampton concede after 3 mins and lost Deano is sacked, and Gerrard takes over. Leicester Home concede after 14 mins and Win Man Utd Cup Away, concede after 8 mins and lose Man Utd Home League, concede after 6 mins and draw Leeds Home concede after 9 mins and draw Wolves Away concede after 7 mins and lose Spurs Home concede after 3 mins and lose. That is ten league games and one cup game we have conceded an early goal, which to me seems quite often. That is too often for my liking. As it has happened under both Deano and Gerrard, you have to wonder about the players in my opinion and their abilities to stay focused and remain on it from the first minute. Would love to see numbers under Smith overall. Garbage this season no doubt, but I feel we were pretty good starters under him. No players are good enough to succeed long term with the shape Gerrard keeps putting us in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave_jW said: Dean always said that players had to meet a specific criteria, I suppose "being nice" was at the forefront.... and now, as a collective we are too nice and a soft touch. Absolute gold. Really got a laugh that. Please post more stuff like this. Can't wait to see what BS is dreamt up to explain players not playing for Gerrard next season when he blames them for every loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts