Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Gerrard’s formation is at least more tolerable than Smith’s 5-3-2. I think it’s just about trying to make it work with what we have. I think competing ideas have left us with too many square pegs but the summer must absolutely correct it. No excuses. Didnt we play 5-3-2 as we only had one wide player available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Zatman said: Last season we took 11 points from losing positions, season before that 9 This season 5. I dont count the Leeds game since we were ahead by a clear distance after we conceded but if you do 6 Yeah, but the mentality is different. If we concede first and score one back a few mins later early in the first half like we did at home to Brentford and Leicester. That's different, at home and with the game to play you will get a reaction. The mentality problem is how many points have we gained from a losing position in 2nd half. Both those games were early in season or in Gerrards reign. Interesting that none have come after though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, Zatman said: Yes it was 8, I had read it initially as Everton scored first in the win. My bad Last season we came from behind to beat Fulham at Villa Park when they were already relegated basically in April. The other was away to Spurs at end of the season, nothing to play for and we didn't get ourselves back into the game. Reguilon scored a fantastic OG early in first half. The list of comeback wins where we were losing in the second half in last two seasons is only against relegated Fulham. At Villa Park. It's utterly shambolic weakness we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 We need to become harder to beat. If you can't win a game, try to get a draw. We have lost over 50 games since we have been back in the Prem, which is nearly a 50% rate. If we want success that has to come down, regardless who is the manager. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichiBoi11 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: We need to become harder to beat. If you can't win a game, try to get a draw. We have lost over 50 games since we have been back in the Prem, which is nearly a 50% rate. If we want success that has to come down, regardless who is the manager. Literally the nail on the head. Especially this season, we just don't draw games. Is that tactical, player mentality, or a bit of both? Either way, if you turn half our defeats (which are usually quite narrow) in to draws then you're suddnely a much more solid team still in with an outside shot of European football. When we win we can look electric, but when our backs are against the walls we crumble, and this is something Gerrard has to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, hippo said: What I can't quite fathom is if he implementing a new style why not play a youngster or two - surely they would be more receptive to a new style as they get first team minutes.? There could be a lot of reasons, maybe their not good enough, maybe gerrard doesnt like using youth, maybe he wants them to learn the system on the training pitch first. When we are struggling as much as we currently are, throwing youngsters on is not the solution, itll knock the confidence right out of them and probably harm their progression Edited April 13, 2022 by Chicken Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Chicken Field said: There could be a lot of reasons, maybe their not good enough, maybe gerrard doesnt like using youth, maybe he wants them to learn the system on the training pitch first. When we are struggling as much as we currently are, throwing youngsters on is not the solution, itll knock the confidence right out of them and probably harm their progression Thats very True of course. However I think the positives outweigh the negatives right now. Ashley Young hasn't been great I think Ben Chrisene is the youngster that could fill that position - surely he could start for 45 minutes v Leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NeilS Posted April 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2022 My main issue is how many times do we concede early in a half? Combine this with our inability to turn games around from a losing position, it is really hurting us. We conceded at the beginning of each half against Spurs, but it seems to be a fairly common occurence going back to the first game of the season, where I am sure Watford scored in the first 15 minutes. The players need to be on it from the very first minute, we seem to passive at the beginning and give ourselves a mountain to climb in too many games. I have listed below the games I am talking about. Watford Away concede after 10 mins and lost Brentford Home Concede after 7 mins and draw Chelsea Away concede after 15 mins and lost West Ham Home concede after 7 mins and lost Southampton concede after 3 mins and lost Deano is sacked, and Gerrard takes over. Leicester Home concede after 14 mins and Win Man Utd Cup Away, concede after 8 mins and lose Man Utd Home League, concede after 6 mins and draw Leeds Home concede after 9 mins and draw Wolves Away concede after 7 mins and lose Spurs Home concede after 3 mins and lose. That is ten league games and one cup game we have conceded an early goal, which to me seems quite often. That is too often for my liking. As it has happened under both Deano and Gerrard, you have to wonder about the players in my opinion and their abilities to stay focused and remain on it from the first minute. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, RichiBoi11 said: Literally the nail on the head. Especially this season, we just don't draw games. Is that tactical, player mentality, or a bit of both? Either way, if you turn half our defeats (which are usually quite narrow) in to draws then you're suddnely a much more solid team still in with an outside shot of European football. And if you turn half of our wins into draws, we're relegated. When people talk about needing more draws, it's only converting losses for some reason. I don't buy the idea that having lots of draws shows you've got character. Brighton and Palace have lost many points this season by conceding late and turning a win into a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, NeilS said: My main issue is how many times do we concede early in a half? Combine this with our inability to turn games around from a losing position, it is really hurting us. We conceded at the beginning of each half against Spurs, but it seems to be a fairly common occurence going back to the first game of the season, where I am sure Watford scored in the first 15 minutes. The players need to be on it from the very first minute, we seem to passive at the beginning and give ourselves a mountain to climb in too many games. I have listed below the games I am talking about. Watford Away concede after 10 mins and lost Brentford Home Concede after 7 mins and draw Chelsea Away concede after 15 mins and lost West Ham Home concede after 7 mins and lost Southampton concede after 3 mins and lost Deano is sacked, and Gerrard takes over. Leicester Home concede after 14 mins and Win Man Utd Cup Away, concede after 8 mins and lose Man Utd Home League, concede after 6 mins and draw Leeds Home concede after 9 mins and draw Wolves Away concede after 7 mins and lose Spurs Home concede after 3 mins and lose. That is ten league games and one cup game we have conceded an early goal, which to me seems quite often. That is too often for my liking. As it has happened under both Deano and Gerrard, you have to wonder about the players in my opinion and their abilities to stay focused and remain on it from the first minute. Conceding early has become a real problem. We rarely did that last season, in fact then we often went ahead early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichiBoi11 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: And if you turn half of our wins into draws, we're relegated. When people talk about needing more draws, it's only converting losses for some reason. I don't buy the idea that having lots of draws shows you've got character. Brighton and Palace have lost many points this season by conceding late and turning a win into a draw. I understand wondering about people not mentioning wins turning to draws, but the reason for that, especially this season, is because for the most part, if we ever score first in a game, we win. We don't seem to crumble in games where we score and give ourselves a confidence boost. The issue is there's several of those games where we don't take the lead that we end up folding and losing. As much as you highlight the points dropped from winning positions, Palace and Brighton have similarly managed to hold on to 13 draws, which is worth 10 more points than Villa have amassed in that way. It sounds simplistic, but it's when we don't take the lead that we face the most issues, and making ourselves more solid in those scenarios would transform this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, NeilS said: My main issue is how many times do we concede early in a half? Combine this with our inability to turn games around from a losing position, it is really hurting us. We conceded at the beginning of each half against Spurs, but it seems to be a fairly common occurence going back to the first game of the season, where I am sure Watford scored in the first 15 minutes. The players need to be on it from the very first minute, we seem to passive at the beginning and give ourselves a mountain to climb in too many games. I have listed below the games I am talking about. Watford Away concede after 10 mins and lost Brentford Home Concede after 7 mins and draw Chelsea Away concede after 15 mins and lost West Ham Home concede after 7 mins and lost Southampton concede after 3 mins and lost Deano is sacked, and Gerrard takes over. Leicester Home concede after 14 mins and Win Man Utd Cup Away, concede after 8 mins and lose Man Utd Home League, concede after 6 mins and draw Leeds Home concede after 9 mins and draw Wolves Away concede after 7 mins and lose Spurs Home concede after 3 mins and lose. That is ten league games and one cup game we have conceded an early goal, which to me seems quite often. That is too often for my liking. As it has happened under both Deano and Gerrard, you have to wonder about the players in my opinion and their abilities to stay focused and remain on it from the first minute. No way does Gerrard get away with the results before he arrived. There are most definitely on him as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 We really missed a trick not going for emery in my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: We really missed a trick not going for emery in my opinion. We did. Dick Emery ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 39 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: And if you turn half of our wins into draws, we're relegated. When people talk about needing more draws, it's only converting losses for some reason. I don't buy the idea that having lots of draws shows you've got character. Brighton and Palace have lost many points this season by conceding late and turning a win into a draw. Agreed, the issue is really our inability to recover when we are behind to salvage a draw. Only the United game have we managed to salvage a point in the 2nd half. Every other game we are behind in, in the 2nd half we've lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: We really missed a trick not going for emery in my opinion. Yeah I agree and think he was harshly treated by Arsenal, and maybe would have be a good choice for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, hippo said: We did. Dick Emery ! Get you Honky Tonk!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: We really missed a trick not going for emery in my opinion. He rejected Newcastle previously. Seemed a done deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 59 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Conceding early has become a real problem. We rarely did that last season, in fact then we often went ahead early. And lost a lot from winning positions - there’s a mental weakness in the squad that neither manager has fully addressed. Hence why we are in for a big summer overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: He rejected Newcastle previously. Seemed a done deal Prob because they were fighting relegation. Where we were he might have been tempted If it doesnt work out with gerrard this is the calibre of manager we need to be looking at. No more gambles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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