Steven Gerrard

[JPJCB]

I’m still pro- gerrard overall but gradually moving into the anti camp at this rate. What concerns me is the atmosphere he creates with his post match comments- I.e sometimes petulant, blaming the players and not taking responsibility beyond saying we’ll buy new players- his job right now is to work with what we have.
 

It stinks a bit of a “why can’t you all just be as good as me” type attitude which isn’t great in a manager. There’s a reason top managers have often been average players: they know how to get the best out of everyone, not just the coutinhos of this world

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, JPJCB said:

I’m still pro- gerrard overall but gradually moving into the anti camp at this rate. What concerns me is the atmosphere he creates with his post match comments- I.e sometimes petulant, blaming the players and not taking responsibility beyond saying we’ll buy new players- his job right now is to work with what we have.
 

It stinks a bit of a “why can’t you all just be as good as me” type attitude which isn’t great in a manager. There’s a reason top managers have often been average players: they know how to get the best out of everyone, not just the coutinhos of this world

Spot on. Go on and buy new players by all means, but stop using it as a threat all the time. It's embarrassing for everyone involved and most likely counterproductive.

[Tommo_b]

8 hours ago, Brentfordnylons said:

Good reply can’t argue with any of that but could simply reply we will never know re.Dean v Thomas or Dean vGerrard?Yes it’s a slog this league and a massive step up and very few highlights when you are used to winning more than you lose.I can say it now we are pretty well safe that I prefer the championship and 1 more season will do for me in the PL.There’s no fun going into most of these games knowing you have about a 10% chance of getting even a draw.I’ve missed 2 games home and away and games at Spurs and Arsenal have been souless apart from our as you would expect great away support.Man city away on a Tuesday night like a library had better nights out at Carlisle.Everton and Villa park are my favourite grounds was my first time at Everton.Nottingham Forrest and Sheffield United take some beating for atmosphere.Leicester City have a drum and these stupid clappers the same as Fulham FFS and when their fans finally sung it was “premier league champions you’ll never sing that”to us Brentford

              You are spot on about Thomas Frank and sorting our defence out after Dean left and being more direct at times.

 

               A

 

 

It’s a strange one isn’t it, the Championship is a way more entertaining league yet we all desire our clubs to be in the “premier/greed” league which is becoming so turgid, the last real bit of genuine entertainment was Leicester winning the league by mainly momentum and work ethic. 

[villanmac]

2 hours ago, JPJCB said:

I’m still pro- gerrard overall but gradually moving into the anti camp at this rate. What concerns me is the atmosphere he creates with his post match comments- I.e sometimes petulant, blaming the players and not taking responsibility beyond saying we’ll buy new players- his job right now is to work with what we have.
 

It stinks a bit of a “why can’t you all just be as good as me” type attitude which isn’t great in a manager. There’s a reason top managers have often been average players: they know how to get the best out of everyone, not just the coutinhos of this world

Couldnt disagree more. It works for Conte. Pundits were calling out Tuchel in early days for subbing players off after 30 mins and calling out their effort and application out in interviews. In fact, i clearly remember MOTD pundits saying he wouldnt last long doing that. Guardiola has criticied players tonnes of times, had full on rants at individuals on the pitch in full view of everyone. In my opinion, standards need to be raised across the board, this is a comfy club to be at and it isnt full of the right type of players to make it as a top 6 club currently. Calling players out at this stage isn't an issue imo, if he's constantly doing it 12 months down the line i'd be concerned but alongside not having the quality we dont have the mentality needed at the moment. If players react badly to general criticism (he doesnt single out players from i can see), f**k em. 

At the end of the day, these things become 'a thing' when we arent playing well. Full pre-season, sign Coutinho get a DM, CB and a proper striker on board and then we'll see how he goes.

 

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, JPJCB said:

I’m still pro- gerrard overall but gradually moving into the anti camp at this rate. What concerns me is the atmosphere he creates with his post match comments- I.e sometimes petulant, blaming the players and not taking responsibility beyond saying we’ll buy new players- his job right now is to work with what we have.
 

It stinks a bit of a “why can’t you all just be as good as me” type attitude which isn’t great in a manager. There’s a reason top managers have often been average players: they know how to get the best out of everyone, not just the coutinhos of this world

I thought about this. I think there is significant evidence that the problem is indeed the players. It's two managers now they have let down in one season alone. I think what the problem is the players are executing in training and not on the pitch. The fragility of their confidence especially when we concede first spans back well into Smiths reign. 

A look at the times we've come back from a losing position in the 2nd half this season is the Man United game only. One point gained from a losing position in 2nd half all season. Last season was the same. That's down to the players

[villaglint]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I thought about this. I think there is significant evidence that the problem is indeed the players. It's two managers now they have let down in one season alone. I think what the problem is the players are executing in training and not on the pitch. The fragility of their confidence especially when we concede first spans back well into Smiths reign. 

A look at the times we've come back from a losing position in the 2nd half this season is the Man United game only. One point gained from a losing position in 2nd half all season. Last season was the same. That's down to the players

Agreed - you have to remember that even last season it is now pretty obvious the good parts of the season were just riding of Grealishs back. 

There is a lot of talent in this team, we've been on a journey with them and there is a lot to like. However if we want to break into the upper parts of the league quite a few of them dont have the talent or the mentality to take us there. 

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, villanmac said:

Couldnt disagree more. It works for Conte. Pundits were calling out Tuchel in early days for subbing players off after 30 mins and calling out their effort and application out in interviews. In fact, i clearly remember MOTD pundits saying he wouldnt last long doing that. Guardiola has criticied players tonnes of times, had full on rants at individuals on the pitch in full view of everyone. In my opinion, standards need to be raised across the board, this is a comfy club to be at and it isnt full of the right type of players to make it as a top 6 club currently. Calling players out at this stage isn't an issue imo, if he's constantly doing it 12 months down the line i'd be concerned but alongside not having the quality we dont have the mentality needed at the moment. If players react badly to general criticism (he doesnt single out players from i can see), f**k em. 

At the end of the day, these things become 'a thing' when we arent playing well. Full pre-season, sign Coutinho get a DM, CB and a proper striker on board and then we'll see how he goes.

 

I think throwing the players under the bus is a sign that you are losing it. Conte and Tuchel can do it because they are top managers who have worked with top players. 

Bruce used to throw the team under tje bus, Lampard had done it a number of times at Everton. It seems petty especially when our main failing is playing a unique and bizarre system the management team have created

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, villaglint said:

Agreed - you have to remember that even last season it is now pretty obvious the good parts of the season were just riding of Grealishs back. 

There is a lot of talent in this team, we've been on a journey with them and there is a lot to like. However if we want to break into the upper parts of the league quite a few of them dont have the talent or the mentality to take us there. 

It's clear the team lacks experience, leadership, physicality and bite. The problem is lots of the players do have talent. Some like Luiz would really do well in Italy for example

We've taken the lead 15 times this season. Won 11, drawn 1 (Leeds) and lost three (Wolves, Chelsea, Brentford). Shows how fragile our confidence is. The team score first and they are energetic and positive. We go behind and they know they've lost. 

We need players who don't have that mentality in the spine of the team to lead young players like JJ and Cash etc.. 

 

[Demitri_C]

15 hours ago, Wurzel said:

For a manager only 5 months into a job, he is digging out the players publically quite a bit. It might work, or it might be the seeds of his own downfall, not sure which yet. One thing I do know is that we as fans should not be hearing about this in leaks or in post match interviews. Do not wash your dirty laundry in public.

Some of them deserve it. Been absolutely shite most of the season

[Rustibrooks]

12 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I thought about this. I think there is significant evidence that the problem is indeed the players. It's two managers now they have let down in one season alone. I think what the problem is the players are executing in training and not on the pitch. The fragility of their confidence especially when we concede first spans back well into Smiths reign. 

A look at the times we've come back from a losing position in the 2nd half this season is the Man United game only. One point gained from a losing position in 2nd half all season. Last season was the same. That's down to the players

I agree with pretty much all of this. It's been our problem since we got promoted, the players lose hope as soon as we concede . Against Spurs, they responded well in the first half and couldn't put their chances away then got punished for it. Even in the Real Madrid vs Chelsea game, Chelsea had several chances to put the game to bed/get back into it when they went to extra time and they were punished for it. Naturally we need to move on from some of our players and try to get better ones in, it's a risk yeah but we are way to comfortable right now. You don't get anywhere without risk.

[lexicon]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

It's clear the team lacks experience, leadership, physicality and bite. The problem is lots of the players do have talent. Some like Luiz would really do well in Italy for example

We've taken the lead 15 times this season. Won 11, drawn 1 (Leeds) and lost three (Wolves, Chelsea, Brentford). Shows how fragile our confidence is. The team score first and they are energetic and positive. We go behind and they know they've lost. 

We need players who don't have that mentality in the spine of the team to lead young players like JJ and Cash etc.. 

 

I'd say the management team lack experience and leadership, more importantly.

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. It's been our problem since we got promoted, the players lose hope as soon as we concede . Against Spurs, they responded well in the first half and couldn't put their chances away then got punished for it. Even in the Real Madrid vs Chelsea game, Chelsea had several chances to put the game to bed/get back into it when they went to extra time and they were punished for it. Naturally we need to move on from some of our players and try to get better ones in, it's a risk yeah but we are way to comfortable right now. You don't get anywhere without risk.

Last season we took 11 points from losing positions, season before that 9

This season 5. I dont count the Leeds game since we were ahead by a clear distance after we conceded but if you do 6

[Zatman]

10 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I'd say the management team lack experience and leadership, more importantly.

Yep I think people would actually be more understanding of Gerrard if he was honest and admit his system is very flawed and that he made a mistake. Instead I feel support around him is poor

[Rustibrooks]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Last season we took 11 points from losing positions, season before that 9

This season 5. I dont count the Leeds game since we were ahead by a clear distance after we conceded but if you do 6

Really? When I looked it up it was 8 from last season and we were 14th overall in that stat with just 2 wins and 2 draws. To be fair I'm looking on transfermarkt lol. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2020&spiele=alle

 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Rustibrooks said:

Really? When I looked it up it was 8 from last season and we were 14th overall in that stat with just 2 wins and 2 draws. To be fair I'm looking on transfermarkt lol. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2020&spiele=alle

 

Yes it was 8, I had read it initially as Everton scored first in the win. My bad

[VillaParkAvenue]

18 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. It's been our problem since we got promoted, the players lose hope as soon as we concede . Against Spurs, they responded well in the first half and couldn't put their chances away then got punished for it. Even in the Real Madrid vs Chelsea game, Chelsea had several chances to put the game to bed/get back into it when they went to extra time and they were punished for it. Naturally we need to move on from some of our players and try to get better ones in, it's a risk yeah but we are way to comfortable right now. You don't get anywhere without risk.

The problem is that confidence is largely a team thing. A team with a recent history of making comebacks will be much more confident about the possibility of doing it again. And if you take one of our players and put him into a team on a winning run, he'd get confident too.

Bayern's players were probably the most confident in Europe in 2020-2021. But around 6 months ago they started having games where they missed a lot of chances and lost, even though they dominated every stat. Now their heads drop as soon as something goes against them.

 

[Chicken Field]

Defo not a fan of gerrard but id rather he stick with his preferred formation, so the current players can learn it and we see which currenr players can cut it, or where we need strengthening, than change for a few more pretty pointless points

[hippo]

41 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think throwing the players under the bus is a sign that you are losing it. Conte and Tuchel can do it because they are top managers who have worked with top players. 

Bruce used to throw the team under tje bus, Lampard had done it a number of times at Everton. It seems petty especially when our main failing is playing a unique and bizarre system the management team have created

It's classic management studies. There is nothing wrong with being an autocratic manager  - but for it to work you have to be right most of the time.

Aston Villa doesn't strike me as a happy ship at the moment. It feels like a tinderbox just waiting to explode (or implode)

[The_Steve]

Gerrard’s formation is at least more tolerable than Smith’s 5-3-2. I think it’s just about trying to make it work with what we have. I think competing ideas have left us with too many square pegs but the summer must absolutely correct it. No excuses. 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Chicken Field said:

Defo not a fan of gerrard but id rather he stick with his preferred formation, so the current players can learn it and we see which currenr players can cut it, or where we need strengthening, than change for a few more pretty pointless points

What I can't quite fathom is if he implementing a new style why not play a youngster or two - surely they would be more receptive to a new style as they get first team minutes.?