Steven Gerrard

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Tommo_b said:

If the season started when Gerrard took charge we would be sitting 10th, one win off of being 8th. About what we would’ve been aiming for at the start of the season.

If the season started since the end of the initial manager bounce at Xmas, based on the last 14 games we would be 16th.  Stats can say anything you want.

[IrishVilla10]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

If the season started since the end of the initial manager bounce at Xmas, based on the last 14 games we would be 16th.  Stats can say anything you want.

So if you ignore 9 points, we would be worse off. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

But I have to constantly read that Gerrard isn’t any better, and ignore all the possible factors contributing to why things haven’t improved. Because smith this smith that. It goes round in  circles  

The problem is we don’t know? He resume doesn’t give us that answer and his tenure so far doesn’t point to that.  If something isn’t right all I hear is “started under Smith”, “because of Smith” blah blah blah.  Some true, some not true Gerrard’s our manager now and nothing has change, in some ways we are worse and some ways better.  He’s only been here five months but at the same time, in football, that’s quite a long time for no improvement.  Football management is about buying and coaching playing, not just buying players.  Our coaching has seen no tangible differences so far which is worrying, just hope more time that will change because you would’ve hoped we would’ve seen some by now.

[Keyblade]

9 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

If the season started when Gerrard took charge we would be sitting 10th, one win off of being 8th. About what we would’ve been aiming for at the start of the season.

Many people were very unhappy when we were sitting around 10th-12th this season, being a win or 2 off top 6/8 too citing lack of improvement and need for European football this season. I think that's the point I was getting at. It seems the goal posts for expectations have shifted for whatever reason. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Keyblade

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm not comparing those teams to Aston Villa. Jesus F. Christ.

Then, i don't know what you are saying?

I was broaching my opinon on here, about our faults in this team, way before Gerrard arrived, and yes, I thought he would instil something that would make it better, he evidently can't, and needs new personnel to do it....so give him a summer and lets see if he can.

Maybe, he has done well to secure the points to possibly keep us up.

 

[Tommo_b]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

If the season started since the end of the initial manager bounce at Xmas, based on the last 14 games we would be 16th.  Stats can say anything you want.

Yeah but we go on when he was appointed, which as us sitting 10th, 3 points off 8th.

IF Smith stayed, would we have got this “hypothetical” new manager bounce? 

Would we be in a relegation battle had Smith stayed… we will never know. 

All I know is we have Gerrard, he hasn’t been in the job very long, we sit 10th since his appointment, his reputation managed to bring in not so long ago one of the biggest names in World football and he is pissed at what he has been seeing from the players.

If he does crap NEXT season then yes, he will get sacked.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

So if you ignore 9 points, we would be worse off. 

I'm pointing out the stupidness of the argument that if Gerrard points had been extrapolated as if he started at the beginning of the season not taking into account factors at the beginning of the season like injuries to name just one.

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Then, i don't know what you are saying?

I was broaching my opinon on here, about our faults in this team, way before Gerrard arrived, and yes, I thought he would instil something that would make it better, he evidently can't, and needs new personnel to do it....so give him a summer and lets see if he can.

Maybe, he has done well to secure the points to possibly keep us up.

 

I'm saying that (most of) those managers improved their teams from the previous incumbents with relatively short amount of time and funds. How those teams and managers compare to Aston Villa is irrelevant. 

[TRO]

Nobody knows with certainty, whether Steven Gerrard will make it with us or not.

And while opinions are voiced, nobody has a monopoly on the answer.

Having said that, any manager, needs time to sort this squad out....if it was close to perfect, the last manager would still be here.

Managers have a limit in what they can do......and usually new players to their liking are central to the way they want to play, he deserves that opportunity, before his final judgment.

Its a very disruptive job changing managers, so I will stick by him until its plainly obvious, he is not the right man......and right now, its not plainly obvious.

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

If the season started since the end of the initial manager bounce at Xmas, based on the last 14 games we would be 16th.  Stats can say anything you want.

in 2022 we have lost 8 times already including a cup game. Will be at least double figures by the end of the season

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Yeah but we go on when he was appointed, which as us sitting 10th, 3 points off 8th.

IF Smith stayed, would we have got this “hypothetical” new manager bounce? 

If Gerrard had been here all season it's unlikely we wouldve got the new manager bounce because that generally happens mid-season.  Additionally if it did happen at the beginning of the season, you cant inflate a peak like that across a season or as you are doing in mid-season because that period is an anomaly.  Therefore you separate that period and then base the total of the other games by the normal average then add the anomaly.  This would mean you would likely take the six game points total and then add to an extrapolated 32 games from the normal 14 games you have played to give the expected answer.

6 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Would we be in a relegation battle had Smith stayed… we will never know. 

We never know, he couldve turned the corner once he had a fit squad or got us relegated or been back in midtable.  The most likely thing is we would be around the same points mark as now.  I dont think we wouldve been relegated but I dont think we wouldve achieved 55 points either because of the poor start.

8 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

All I know is we have Gerrard, he hasn’t been in the job very long, we sit 10th since his appointment, his reputation managed to bring in not so long ago one of the biggest names in World football and he is pissed at what he has been seeing from the players.

If he does crap NEXT season then yes, he will get sacked.

I agree with all of this.  My issue is at the moment is that he doesnt seem to be able to get any more through coaching out of this current bunch which is worrying because for me that is one of the key things we need from a manager, the ability to get the best out of his team.  Yes i think we have many problems with this squad, I always felt we were a midtable team even when others thought we were close to pushing the likes of the top 8.  It's probably why I didnt think Smith shouldve got sacked but here we are and Gerrard has the job.  We know the players have more because they are all still here except Jack and were the team that were brilliant the first half of last season so there is more in these players and that's why I'm surprised in 5 months at least one of two arent playing better under the coaching of Gerrard, Beale and crew because they arent really are they.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

This is becoming a how many times can we make the same points and counter points competition.

No Match for 2 weeks either, so that's two weeks without even having fresh material to have the exact same arguments about.

[Tommo_b]

So Eddie Howe and Patrick Veira are good appointments but Gerrard isn’t? Is that what I’m interpreting?

Fun fact… after game day 11 we were 5 points ahead of Newcastle and 5 points behind Crystal Palace…

We are currently 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 1 point behind Crystal Palace.

[Tommo_b]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

This is becoming a how many times can we make the same points and counter points competition.

No Match for 2 weeks either, so that's two weeks without even having fresh material to have the exact same arguments about.

Just means we need to get inventive!

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

This is becoming a how many times can we make the same points and counter points competition.

No Match for 2 weeks either, so that's two weeks without even having fresh material to have the exact same arguments about.

Let's all make a pledge then and go over to the Keinan Davis thread and discuss how shit he is and will never be PL level for the next two weeks, at least we all agree on that 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Tommo_b said:

So Eddie Howe and Patrick Veira are good appointments but Gerrard isn’t? Is that what I’m interpreting?

Fun fact… after game day 11 we were 5 points ahead of Newcastle and 5 points behind Crystal Palace…

We are currently 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 1 point behind Crystal Palace.

With a significantly better squad than both of those teams, you are kind of making the point for us   additionally Palace didnt have the benefit of a new manager bounce that we did so it's actually worse.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm saying that (most of) those managers improved their teams from the previous incumbents with relatively short amount of time and funds. How those teams and managers compare to Aston Villa is irrelevant. 

If you raised this point after the Leeds game....The same claim could be made about SG.....your timing is on the back of 4 defeats to better teams than us.

Improvement can be achieved by having many things on your side, like the right players, who just need motivating......you could also point to Everton, where Frank is having a tough time, and I presume the pitchforks are out there too....The ex England Manager is having a tough time turning Watford around, but Eddie Howe has, at Newcastle.......so what, each club has different circumstances.

We have no quality midfield and yet we are expecting a young manager, learning his trade, to turn that around, to beat teams better than us.......sure we was all hoping for better, but maybe its just not possible to do it without personnel changes.

Have you, bothered to consider, it needs new faces, and they can't do what he is asking.

I remember Dean saying after one game, I didn't ask them to do that......some of us think, that everything the players do is to instruction, it sometimes isn't....its sometimes instinctive, during a game and they make those decisions, good or bad.

 

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

So Eddie Howe and Patrick Veira are good appointments but Gerrard isn’t? Is that what I’m interpreting?

Fun fact… after game day 11 we were 5 points ahead of Newcastle and 5 points behind Crystal Palace…

We are currently 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 1 point behind Crystal Palace.

On Christmas Day we were 12 points ahead of Newcastle with a game in hand, we were 2 points ahead of Palace

This is when our slump started

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

If you raised this point after the Leeds game....The same claim could be made about SG.....your timing is on the back of 4 defeats to better teams than us.

Improvement can be achieved by having many things on your side, like the right players, who just need motivating......you could also point to Everton, where Frank is having a tough time, and I presume the pitchforks are out there too....The ex England Manager is having a tough time turning Watford around, but Eddie Howe has, at Newcastle.......so what, each club has different circumstances.

We have no quality midfield and yet we are expecting a young manager, learning his trade, to turn that around, to beat teams better than us.......sure we was all hoping for better, but maybe its just not possible to do it without personnel changes.

Have you, bothered to consider, it needs new faces, and they can't do what he is asking.

I remember Dean saying after one game, I didn't ask them to do that......some of us think, that everything the players do is to instruction, it sometimes isn't....its sometimes instinctive, during a game and they make those decisions, good or bad.

 

I'm not even looking at the results. We're just not a better team than the one that started the season, despite the squad being much healthier and adding Lucas Digne and Philippe **** Coutinho on top of it. 

I thought the point of hiring a new manager was to improve the existing team? If he needs 100's of million + time, then what was the point? You could have given the previous guy 100's of million + time.

I mean, I agree with what you're saying here but I just think it's funny that all this nuance is coming out now, when start of the season it was Europe or bust (not you in particular).

[VillaParkAvenue]

10 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

So Eddie Howe and Patrick Veira are good appointments but Gerrard isn’t? Is that what I’m interpreting?

Fun fact… after game day 11 we were 5 points ahead of Newcastle and 5 points behind Crystal Palace…

We are currently 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 1 point behind Crystal Palace.

Howe has improved Newcastle and not only by signing players since the existing players most of all are performing much better. Vieira started with a largely new squad in the summer and has established a completely new style for them. Both teams look like coaching jobs well done.

Gerrard’s Villa still look more like a work in progress.