Steven Gerrard

[PerryBarrPet]

35 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I give us one more big window of spending before the owners become disillusioned and pull the plug they can't just keep throwing money away.

If we don't make the step next season they may be content with us just maintaining being in the prem every season and that will be that.

Seen nothing to suggest Gerrard is the man to take us to the next level and someone we should be pinning our hopes on.

If we don’t make the step next season our owners will not be content with just being in the prem: they did not come here and spend all that money just to bumble along. The choice they have is either sack SG and find someone better or sell the club and move on.

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said:

If we don’t make the step next season our owners will not be content with just being in the prem: they did not come here and spend all that money just to bumble along. The choice they have is either sack SG and find someone better or sell the club and move on.

Agreed - Think Purslow would be toast as well. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

I see NSWE building an even more expensive squad over the summer and if SG cannot deliver 'continuous progress' then he may not be in charge come the end of next season. No excuses at that point. 

You know, this is one of the reasons i'm baffled by some of the dramatic posts.

It's either you trust this board, or not.

They have truckloads of credit in the bank.

There is no " emotional connection " like there was with Deano, with the fans etc. aside from probably between SG / Purslow?

Personally, I don't see Purslow as the emotional type either, and ultimately, it's his neck on the line.

I say all that to say:

1. It is way to early to be making grandiose predictions of doom, or glory for that matter.

2. The board are ambitious, and if progress doesn't match their expectations, their will be reassessments and ultimately changes if necessary.

3. Like it or not, THIS Manager will be given all the tools to fulfill those ambitions. I can't see them co signing stupid signings which are not in the clubs best long term interests either.

4. They dismissed an immensely popular manager, and hired a polarising one. I highly doubt they would be "sparing his feelings " at the expense of the clubs overall health.

5. We are doing " OK " since his arrival , there have been positives and negatives, ups and downs, as most level headed folks would have expected this season anyway.

6. Which I constantly have to repeat to myself when reading certain post. HE HAS ONLY BEEN HERE HALF A SEASON and A JANUARY TRANSFER FFS!

7. The type of players we need now, we would have needed whether Dean Smith OR Steven Gerrard was manager, people need to try and get over their little personal gripes.

8. Progress, unfortunately isn't always linear and upwards, but I have tremendous faith in this board to ultimately make the right decisions. No, they won't get every decision on the way there correct either.

 

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You know, this is one of the reasons i'm baffled by some of the dramatic posts.

It's either you trust this board, or not.

They have truckloads of credit in the bank.

There is no " emotional connection " like there was with Deano, with the fans etc. aside from probably between SG / Purslow?

Personally, I don't see Purslow as the emotional type either, and ultimately, it's his neck on the line.

I say all that to say:

1. It is way to early to be making grandiose predictions of doom, or glory for that matter.

2. The board are ambitious, and if progress doesn't match their expectations, their will be reassessments and ultimately changes if necessary.

3. Like it or not, THIS Manager will be given all the tools to fulfill those ambitions. I can't see them co signing stupid signings which are not in the clubs best long term interests either.

4. They dismissed an immensely popular manager, and hired a polarising one. I highly doubt they would be "sparing his feelings " at the expense of the clubs overall health.

5. We are doing " OK " since his arrival , there have been positives and negatives, ups and downs, as most level headed folks would have expected this season anyway.

6. Which I constantly have to repeat to myself when reading certain post. HE HAS ONLY BEEN HERE HALF A SEASON and A JANUARY TRANSFER FFS!

7. The type of players we need now, we would have needed whether Dean Smith OR Steven Gerrard was manager, people need to try and get over their little personal gripes.

8. Progress, unfortunately isn't always linear and upwards, but I have tremendous faith in this board to ultimately make the right decisions. No, they won't get every decision on the way there correct either.

 

Stop talking sense.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, nick76 said:

While I agree with you, I think it’s more than that we need some nastiness in our team…not pricks but just aggressive.  

We also need players that want to win more than their individual opponent.  I watch some of our one on one battles and we are second to the ball or get pushed off easy.  Is that 6ft 6 giants? It can certainly help but doesn’t have to be…elite players like Kante show that doesn’t have to be the case but obviously we have to think of our level.

 I do agree though our team does need some more height, frame and muscle generally.

but I equally agree with you too.....it doesn't have to be....I can think of many small players with aggression, Like Vardy and David Speedie was, but they was mainly forwards, defensively, they need to be strong in the air, that requires stature.

I don't want a team full of large stature players, just a few more then we have.....The thing is, players like Van jijk and Matip put it about with minimum effort, is my point......smaller players with the desire and aggression, get worn out more easily, doing it.

I'm looking for latent aggression as opposed to dirty play.

I look at Brentford and how they have morphed in to a more aggressive team, their previous style would have them relegated like Norwich are sure to be.......sure, there's more to it than that, but we are talking about one element, that we are clearly missing.

[sne]

Since I'm Swedish I prefer to stay somewhere in the middle. I like what the owners and the board have done but I still maintain my right to question things if I want.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

To be fair, even the female pundit on the stream I was watching said " you can't help but feel that Villa need a quality Defensive Midfielder in this side, they've got alot of attacking talent, but no stability " etc. Lol

I met a guy in Greenland, who said the same.

[Tomaszk]

18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

"The board"

4. They dismissed an immensely popular manager, and hired a polarising one. I highly doubt they would be "sparing his feelings " at the expense of the clubs overall health.

Are you including Purslow in that term? There's no way the owners picked Gerrard. Purslow picked him.

[The_Steve]

Smith deserved the sack - popularity with the fan base isn’t going to cut it. Gerrard has inherited an unbalanced squad. He’s going nowhere - the squad is in need of a big change - and the last thing the board will do is make rash decisions. Smith was given lots of time to turn it around but hit his ceiling. Time will tell with Gerrard but I haven’t given up yet. Far from it. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by The_Steve

[choffer]

 

[TRO]

On 03/04/2022 at 13:12, blandy said:

Yeah, I agree with this.

I also, kind of reluctantly agree with the notion, to an extent, that "it's not his fault, it's the players" . That's because, under 2 different managers for the past, whatever, 12 or so months, the results and performances have been at best inconsistent, and at worst troubling. Which suggests that the comments about the squad needing significant change aren't wrong. Neither manager has been able to find a formation, team selections or tactics which consistently look like we're going in the right direction. And that's with different coaches, as well. So yeah, changing the squad (more than a couple of tweaks) is necessary.

But I can't get over this feeling that Gerrard is not the right person to do it. That he doesn't have the experience of a top league, that he, almost because he was such a good and committed player, can't get his head round connecting with different types of people in his squad, to bring out the best of them. He got the new manager bounce, or results and performances based on "oh wow! this guy's a genuine playing legend and now he's my manager", but that's worn off, clearly. And what's left doesn't look like it's enough to really go anywhere. The match ups with the other sides in the League - I mean most of the other managers and clubs he's up against are more experienced, more tactically capable, not because they are smarter (though some are) but because they've been doing it for longer, seen more problems to overcome and all the rest of it.

I really dislike him saying stuff implying the players aren't good enough - they might not be, some of them, but telling people they're rubbish is not a good tool for team spirit, for motivation, for togetherness and commitment - because you get "why should I play for him, he doesn't rate me" and "he's slagged off my best mate" type responses. We might want players to play for the shirt, for the fans, regardless of who is the manager and whether they like him or not, but humans are humans.

Villa are not going to outgun the top 6 (plus a few others financially), even with our owners, so there has to be another factor there to advance us. I can't see what it is currently. We had something with Deano and Jack Grealish which was a kind of USP that made Villa at the time more than the sum of its parts, but time has moved on. Maybe the famous name manager and attracting unlikely players to the club could be it, but if clubs above us can offer Champions league, bigger wages....then maybe not so much.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, we have come miles since NSWE took over, absolutely miles. But there's a heck of a long way to go and I'm just looking for more of a sign that Gerrard and his coaches have something to help, and I'm struggling to see anything so far. Being good with the media, or having been a cracking player are neither here nor there. Being a "winner" as a player - absolutely no guarantee of anything. More "winners" fail than succeed at management, because what they had was natural to them and therefore so much harder to put across to others not as gifted, than for a manager who was an OK player who had to try and understand what they needed to do to be better and stay in their side  - they have that personal experience to get across to their own players.

So I'm in the "wrong choice" camp, too. I really hope he succeeds, and regardless of my personal thoughts he needs to be given time and a chance and help to do so. I hope he is a quick learner. I guess he is.

Lots of assumptions/speculations in there Pete and I suspect, you was never really convinced from the outset, but you are entitled to your opinion.....I would be flabbergasted, if he doesn't know already the achilles heel of this team....but knowing and doing is something different...This squad is difficult to change, without surgery.....thats my opinion.

If SG was an average player for a Premiership club, would that detract from the "great player" references, that to me seems more derogatory, than descriptive, does anyone raise the playing profile of Graham Potter everytime he is mentioned or Sean Dyche, just as random examples......did his achievememts at Rangers slip under the radar, or is it just dismissed as a micky mouse league?

hypotheically If Steven Gerrard had himself playing for him, what a huge difference that would make....I think a number of our players have been over hyped in terms of consistency, and too many 6's have been dished up with impunity....The acceptance that many will go, seems to be a taboo subject, and yet still a manger like Dean Smith a fans Favourite, relied on most of them still in the team to help him keep his job....Do you think that is not lost on SG.

I hear the line rolled out about playing style and yet the manager before, had a contrasting style and that got him the sack....I accept that I have no more an answer that the next man, and my opinions is all I can muster, but they have been consistent under Gerrards stewardship and I think he will, get it right.....but not with this squad the way it is balanced out.

I can tell you now, coming from an old timer....Ron Saunders wouldn't have stood for some of these offerings, so to suggest SG is being harsh, so be it, I say, its possibly needed.....sure he knows more than us, staying short of what he really does feel is necessary to retain the dressing room, to fulfil the remaining games.....don't forget, he has set the standards in the game for desire, workrate and a will to win.....He recognises more than most, when its there, and when its not.....you can only take the horse to the water, you can't make it drink.

No Manager, can expect an easy ride through poor results, and its then he needs his believers, not just when, he is winning games.....Arteta is testiment to that.

I have no bones, with any fan, who doesn't think SG is the right man......in the fullness of time they could be right and me wrong.....but some of the reasons for those opinions are flaky at best.

There are basically 2 fundamental parts to a football manager in our situation 1) does he know whats wrong 2) can he get the players to fix it, despite having full support from the Owners.

I have no doubt the answer to the first question is yes.....The second question, I am not so sure, based on the dithering we seem to have done over recents seasons with the DCM position, and the inability to bring in the necessary physical attributes to balance the team, properly.

Finally, I do accept, your good judgment in giving him time....for me I remain committed to his appointment, expecting good times ahead.

 

[KMitch]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Yep - the clean up after Stevie G is going to take some doing. A load of players with little resale value on massive contracts , all brought to play in the narrow formation.

Its sickening to watch all the progress of last 3 years squandered. 

We're playing just as poorly as we were under Deano this season, except we now have Coutinho/Digne and all the players injured/unfit for Smith's tenure this season are now available for selection.  You could at least see our identity/style under Smith.  I have no idea how Gerrard wants the team to play and it's obvious that the players don't either.  He tried to play like Rangers did and we've gotten ripped apart in transition over and over and over again.  Now?  He just seems to be throwing something different on the pitch just to see if it works.  Naive young manager making stupid mistakes and seems to be just as clueless as Lampard.  Who knew Wayne Rooney would be the "smart" one of those three and has avoided taking a Prem job before he was ready.  Will be shocked if Gerrard is still here at the end of next season.  Disastrous appointment by Purslow.  

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AshVilla said:

I give us one more big window of spending before the owners become disillusioned and pull the plug they can't just keep throwing money away.

If we don't make the step next season they may be content with us just maintaining being in the prem every season and that will be that.

Seen nothing to suggest Gerrard is the man to take us to the next level and someone we should be pinning our hopes on.

I have seen nothing to suggest, he won't be successful.

This is not his team, when it is, my judgment, will become clearer.

I am not judging this manager on the squad balance we have.

[KMitch]

29 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Smith deserved the sack - popularity with the fan base isn’t going to cut it. Gerrard has inherited an unbalanced squad. He’s going nowhere - the squad is in need of a big change - and the last thing the board will do is make rash decisions. Smith was given lots of time to turn it around but hit his ceiling. Time will tell with Gerrard but I haven’t given up yet. Far from it. 

So far, Gerrard seems as tactically astute as Tim Sherwood.  The only thing he's been good at is attracting higher profile players to Villa than Smith could (Coutinho, Digne, & Chambers).  It's good if you want to get neutrals to talk about the Villa and the fans to be a bit optimistic, but I see no reason to continue to give him time other than he hasn't been here "3 years" yet, but Smith was and got just as much out of this squad with less.  

[TRO]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Yep - the clean up after Stevie G is going to take some doing. A load of players with little resale value on massive contracts , all brought to play in the narrow formation.

Its sickening to watch all the progress of last 3 years squandered. 

The system where wingers was used, bore no fruit either, under a different manager....its going round and round in circles, blaming systems, exclusively.

[NoelVilla]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have seen nothing to suggest, he won't be successful.

This is not his team, when it is, my judgment, will become clearer.

I am not judging this manager on the squad balance we have.

That is 70% of the season without any accountability. I definitely don't agree with that.

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

Lots of assumptions/speculations in there Pete and I suspect, you was never really convinced from the outset, but you are entitled to your opinion.....I would be flabbergasted, if he doesn't know already the achilles heel of this team....but knowing and doing is something different...This squad is difficult to change, without surgery.....thats my opinion.

Yep, I felt it was a risky appointment when it was made, still do. Not convinced at all. We are all making assumptions and speculating, because we don't know, any of us. I agree he will have a view from his time here of the weaknesses of the team, but I suspect (from reading this board) that they are not the same as those of a lot of supporters. I also agree that getting the squad he wants is not quick, cheap or easy.

Quote

If SG was an average player for a Premiership club, would that detract from the "great player" references, that to me seems more derogatory, than descriptive, does anyone raise the playing profile of Graham Potter everytime he is mentioned or Sean Dyche, just as random examples......did his achievememts at Rangers slip under the radar, or is it just dismissed as a micky mouse league?

The whole point I made about managers like Potter or Dyche, is that they have an understanding of what it's like to be a player the manager thinks neds to do better, because they were themselves "average" - Gerrard can never have that. Managers from the past, the best ones, almost none were top international type players - Ferguson, Morinho, Graham Taylor, Big Fat Ron...they have the edge because they didn't have the natural gifts of the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Bobby Charlton, Alan Ball...(there are exceptions, but often the best players don't make the best managers).

Quote

I hear the line rolled out about playing style and yet the manager before, had a contrasting style and that got him the sack....I accept that I have no more an answer that the next man, and my opinions is all I can muster, but they have been consistent under Gerrards stewardship and I think he will, get it right.....but not with this squad the way it is balanced out.

Consistently inconsistent!

Quote

I can tell you now, coming from an old timer....Ron Saunders wouldn't have stood for some of these offerings, so to suggest SG is being harsh, so be it, I say, its possibly needed.....sure he knows more than us, staying short of what he really does feel is necessary to retain the dressing room, to fulfil the remaining games.....don't forget, he has set the standards in the game for desire, workrate and a will to win.....He recognises more than most, when its there, and when its not.....you can only take the horse to the water, you can't make it drink.

The game and the world has changed since then. The type of beastings given out by Saunders, just don't work 40 years later. Players are much wealthier, much more cushioned, much more sensitive (in a good way) emotionally - they grew up in a different era, the game is faster, more skilful, more technical, cleaner, with better facilities and better analysis and coaching. It's not the case that none of the fundamentals are the same, but a case of handling them differently from even when Gerrard was a player.

Quote

No Manager, can expect an easy ride through poor results, and its then he needs his believers, not just when, he is winning games.....Arteta is testiment to that.

I have no bones, with any fan, who doesn't think SG is the right man......in the fullness of time they could be right and me wrong.....but some of the reasons for those opinions are flaky at best.

There are basically 2 fundamental parts to a football manager in our situation 1) does he know wha'ts wrong 2) can he get the players to fix it, despite having full support from the Owners.

I have no doubt the answer to the first question is yes.....The second question, I am not so sure, based on the dithering we seem to have done over recent seasons with the DCM position, and the inability to bring in the necessary physical attributes to balance the team, properly.

Finally, I do accept, your good judgment in giving him time....for me I remain committed to his appointment, expecting good times ahead.

Agree about results, and they're pretty much ordinary, in my view. I don't feel convinced or confident Gerrard knows what's wrong and therefore how to fix it, other than "throw it all away and start again" and I don't personally trust that he is particularly likely to get it right. But like you, I agree that he has to be given his chance (same as with the last bloke I didn't rate as being the answer, Steve Bruce). I was certain about him being the wrong choice, I'm less certain Gerrard is not capable, because he's been a manager a much shorter time, but he wasn't particularly successful i nScotland - 1 trophy in 3 years, was it? I mean, in a 2 team league!  But he did OK. It's not the Prem, though.

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Smith deserved the sack - popularity with the fan base isn’t going to cut it. Gerrard has inherited an unbalanced squad. He’s going nowhere - the squad is in need of a big change - and the last thing the board will do is make rash decisions. Smith was given lots of time to turn it around but hit his ceiling. Time will tell with Gerrard but I haven’t given up yet. Far from it. 

I'm still on the fence whether Smith deserved the sack, it will really depend on whether we are being ambitious and push the boat out in the summer to really go for the European places or whether we make minor changes and hope a few other teams slip up next season and everything goes right for us.

If we really go for it then sure getting rid of Smith was probably the wise decision, if we arent then I would rather stayed with a popular manager who had earnt a lot of credit and the fan base on the whole loved rather than a rookie manager with a name from his playing days.

I know some wont agree with me but it's my opinion and I know it's been debated several times so I dont really want to go into it again.  We had a bad 2021 calendar year under Smith, post the Covid lockdown in January, what seemed to be going to be a great season after the first half of the season turned into a poor run in in the second half of the season for reasons that are heavily debated on here.  We had a mixed summer starting with some quality signings and then lost the heart of the team in Jack.  Then our early season was blighted by injuries mostly to our attacking players.  A bad run ended in Smith getting sacked because of that bad run and a poor 2021.  In my mind we were never going to get relegated, and once the likes of Bailey, Traore, Watkins, Ings were fit and Buendia settled we would've climbed the table a bit and likely not been much behind where we are now.  Gerrard had a great first six games with 12 points but 14 points from the next 13 games I think even the hardnose that wanted Smith fired wouldnt argue that Smith would've matched that points haul.

The argument about 2021 calendar year is valid because it was poor but 20/21 Smith amounted 55 points after avoiding relegation the season before in our first season back and getting promotion the season before.  That earned him credit.  Let me say that again, he got 55 points last season, on most seasons in the last ten years would've got a top ten finish. So poor 2021, fabulous 20/21 season.  If he didnt have so many injuries early in the season I doubt he would have got sacked either because he'd had more options available.  Gerrard benefitted by all those players coming back for him.

Gerrard is still the unknown, a rookie manager with a big name.  I'm fully supportive of him but it only makes sense to me if we invest heavily in him otherwise for me there was no point changing from Smith.  Smith enjoyed the majority of support from the fan base, we felt we had a connection with him at the club.  Gerrard doesnt have that and I doubt he ever will because he's such a Liverpool Red and that's fine but he wont get away with as much as Smith would so Gerrard needs success ie European place level results with regular consistent good performances.  If the club dont heavily invest in Gerrard this summer then I think they have just created a bit of disconnect with a lot of the fan base because we've lost that connection, that family feel and if the results are on par with what Smith wouldve likely got then what was the point.

We need Gerrard to be a success, we need to invest heavily in him and we need to balance the squad and upgrade some of the positions of the team.  This summer is huge for me and it will also settle in my mind whether it was right to let go of Smith and bring in Gerrard.  The second part is at the end of next season when it can be judged better whether Gerrard was the right person to replace Smith.  I didnt think he was the right appointment, I did though get on board quickly but I have to say the last 13 games have really worried me and while I can almost accept the 14 points (after 12 points from 6 games in his initial period) it's some of the performances I'm worried about, which to me are worse than some of the performances under Smith which ultimately got him the sack.

It's been a highly frustrating 16 months being a Villa fan, some ups and downs, and a lot of mixed results and performances.  I need a good strong summer and need the team to start performing and Gerrard to start earning his money.  He has my support but I have to say I'm struggling a bit at the moment.

[sne]

Surely the job is to do the best with the squad you have week in and week out. You get 2 windows a season to adjust things but the job is all year.

I judge every manager continuously through their time here. One can absolutely do a year to year evaluation and the final judgement comes when they leave but don't think you have to wait a year and a half before you form an opinion.

Obviously time is a factor and with Gerrard it's too early to tell. My initial impression and hesitation around him has not changed so far. There are some positives for sure but also a few worrying signs. Mostly things you would expect from someone like him.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, NoelVilla said:

That is 70% of the season without any accountability. I definitely don't agree with that.

What do you mean, no accountability?I am not suggesting that......Its his Gig, he has to take responsibilty, all managers do.

I said....I am not judging him, until, he gets the bones of his own team, just as the majority of fans said about Dean Smith, when we went on a run of 2 wins in 12 games, before the 10 game golden run of wins, to gain a play off place.

Not that its any of my business as a villa fan......but I guess the same applies to Frank at Everton.

Getting the right pegs in the right holes, is a huge part of a managers job, they don't all have magic wands and walk in to a squad with super players and a great variety of attributes to work with....We was 15th when he come in.