Steven Gerrard

[WallisFrizz]

23 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think the way you change our problems is to bring in proven winners and retain those you think can be influenced by and feed off that winners mentality and who are week in week out able to maintain high standards and even when things are going against them individually and they may be slightly off it are still going to give 100% in terms of effort.

 

I like much of your post but the bit in bold makes me nervous. ‘Proven Winners’ coming to mid table Aston Villa means past their peak/old and overpaid. I don’t mind one proven winner but as a whole transfer strategy, I think it’s a recipe for disaster. Also, we brought in ‘proven winner’ Ashley Young and whilst he might be great in mentoring the younger players, he hasn’t improved things on the pitch.

They need to have a very specific idea about the positions and attributes they need to improve and do their due diligence re injuries/personality etc. The club has failed over 2-3 transfer windows to sort the midfield out, there should be no excuses this summer.

[foreveryoung]

7 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

I like much of your post but the bit in bold makes me nervous. ‘Proven Winners’ coming to mid table Aston Villa means past their peak/old and overpaid. I don’t mind one proven winner but as a whole transfer strategy, I think it’s a recipe for disaster. Also, we brought in ‘proven winner’ Ashley Young and whilst he might be great in mentoring the younger players, he hasn’t improved things on the pitch.

They need to have a very specific idea about the positions and attributes they need to improve and do their due diligence re injuries/personality etc. The club has failed over 2-3 transfer windows to sort the midfield out, there should be no excuses this summer.

Your idea of proven winners are wrong. They don't actually have to have won stuff. I think if we can get Phillips and JWP (wishing) that's a great start. Ship out the 9 to 5 players, McGinn, Luiz (who I love by the way), Watkins, an bring in a proven goal scorer, although I would be happy with a fit Ing's in the squad for goals.

Alot of the squad have such a weak mentality. I didn't see hardly any player yesterday work hard, an could post many clips of players walking off the pitch after games like they haven't played 90 minutes and with a face not to bothered about a loss.

Edited April 3, 2022 by foreveryoung

[WallisFrizz]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Your idea of proven winners are wrong. They don't actually have to have won stuff. I think if we can get Phillips and JWP (wishing) that's a great start. Ship out the 9 to 5 players, McGinn, Luiz (who I love by the way), Watkins, an bring in a proven goal scorer, although I would be happy with a fit Ing's in the squad for goals.

Now you’ve lost me…

[sne]

I like Smith, he is one of us and did fantastic at getting us to where we are. But it was the right time to let him go and fully support that decision.

Bringing in Gerrard thou was not the way I would have gone. His name raises the profile of the club in some ways, but that's from his playing days. 

I do so hope we continue to build long term rather than go for older "win now" players with only a season or 2 in them.

Slight fear that Gerrard being a winner™ he's not patient enough to wait while we build and that he will push for the likes of Suarez or Wijnaldum type players as his quest for the Plop job might not tolerate not having instant success here.

He built patiently at Rangers so this might all be based on nothing. Regardless he really needs to sort out the way we position our players because we are so open and full of holes that anyone not having a terrible day will be able to exploit us.

Edited April 3, 2022 by sne

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, WallisFrizz said:

Now you’ve lost me…

Grealish is a winner, Phillips is a winner, JWP is a winner. the difference is they play like they want to win. McGinn, Luiz, Watkin's at the moment, don't!!

In normal life, some people go to there 9-5, do there bit, and go home. Other's you'll notice, want to achieve stuff in life, promotion, wage rises, or even just to get noticed, the grafters.

[david-avfc]

Personally I am yet to warm to Gerrard. I have a feeling he will turn out to be a decent manager and will win things, but we shouldn’t be the ones for him to practice on and make mistakes with. 
 

I didn’t particularly like his comments post-Wolves about if the players can’t fix it he will bring new players in who can fix it. To me that came across as he is running out of ideas and believes only buying new players will solve all his problems. But I actually think we already have a decent squad so if he is failing to get a tune out of them I think that reflects negatively on his credentials. Sometimes in management the naturally best players struggle to adapt when dealing with lesser quality players and in several interviews reading between the lines I get the impression that Gerrard doesn’t understand why the players aren’t doing what he expects… is that the players or is that his management?

[TRO]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The problem is that we have a squad full of talented ATTACKING minded and relatively lightweight players.

How some people still can't see that it's our defence and defensive solidity in all areas that is lacking is bizarre to me.

You could have a team of under 21s who are technically and skillfully superior to a Burnley team for example, but they would never win. They would simply be Outmuscled and outfought.

This often happens to our senior team. We aren't Man City or Liverpool skill and technical wise so the idea that we don't need players with more physical stature and ball winning ability should surely be blown wide open.

The only way you can get away with having a team of little players at this level is if they are all Coutinho in his prime.form.

I genuinely think he should even be trying Chambers as a makeshift DM till summer.

Arsenal suffered with the same disease for a few seasons. Until they finally started making the transition to finding the balance between getting physically strong ball winners in, who can also play football well.

1000% spot on.

Shaun, I know you have been banging this drum for so long now, along with myself and a few others.....even the podcasters have finally come around too.

The media pundits, don't care, so you can't expect much in depth analysis from them.

The best I have heard this week end is a report from Birmingham live quoting Lage as say " The plan was to nullify Villa's Phil Coutinho and play through the midfield" ....Plan, the cheek of it, as if he has created a tactical masterstroke over Steven Gerrard.....I couldn't stop laughing when I read it.....As is every team doesn't try to stop the opponents talisman, they used to do it to Jack.......The trick is don't let them do it...................Some of the reporting is really low grade.

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, david-avfc said:

Personally I am yet to warm to Gerrard. I have a feeling he will turn out to be a decent manager and will win things, but we shouldn’t be the ones for him to practice on and make mistakes with. 
 

I didn’t particularly like his comments post-Wolves about if the players can’t fix it he will bring new players in who can fix it. To me that came across as he is running out of ideas and believes only buying new players will solve all his problems. But I actually think we already have a decent squad so if he is failing to get a tune out of them I think that reflects negatively on his credentials. Sometimes in management the naturally best players struggle to adapt when dealing with lesser quality players and in several interviews reading between the lines I get the impression that Gerrard doesn’t understand why the players aren’t doing what he expects… is that the players or is that his management?

I used to think this, but it's all becoming a bit of a myth. We saw the odd fantastic performance from when Smith managed and it's the same with Gerrard. To me it's either be at 100% 99% of the time or go and play for a team that accepts mediocrity, cause that is not us!!

[WallisFrizz]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Grealish is a winner, Phillips is a winner, JWP is a winner. the difference is they play like they want to win. McGinn, Luiz, Watkin's at the moment, don't!!

In normal life, some people go to there 9-5, do there bit, and go home. Other's you'll notice, want to achieve stuff in life, promotion, wage rises, or even just to get noticed, the grafters.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about whether they are classed as winners or not if they haven’t won anything (although tbf Phillips won the championship with Leeds and was so close to winning the Euros). However totally agree that the mentality you’ve described is what we need. 

[Tommo_b]

I really liked gerrards post match comments, it’s like either buck up your ideas and perform or find another club as that level of performance will not be tolerated at Aston Villa football club for much longer.

[foreveryoung]

Just now, Tommo_b said:

I really liked gerrards post match comments, it’s like either buck up your ideas and perform or find another club as that level of performance will not be tolerated at Aston Villa football club for much longer.

Some fans saw this as a negative, like Gerrard is running out of ideas. I saw it as the truth, which is rarely told to players. They know who they are too, we cannot put up with these mediocre performances when the owners are investing £300 million+ in the club.

Like in any Blue chip company, if you aren't performing and improving the business, your out the door. We have ambition, unfortunately we cannot afford to include the half arsed.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I really liked gerrards post match comments, it’s like either buck up your ideas and perform or find another club as that level of performance will not be tolerated at Aston Villa football club for much longer.

Its a great soundbite but he has said similar after Newcastle game. Remember he also had a wholesale changes comment after Newcastle which led to nothing 

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

When they was on song Smith's team played better football, our game against Man U early in the season was arguably our best performance this season.

We have needed a DM for many seasons and not got one and when we did have one we never played him enough to see if he could cut it.

Recruitment is poor across the whole system, not in the individual players. We have so many players all trying to do the same thing. Coutinho and Buendia, Bert and Bailey. Ings and Watkins . Doug and McGinn. 

When the system fails we have no plan B and to cap it all Gerrard appears to losing faith in most of the players. I believe they will return the complement and want out and throw Gerrard and us into the shit. 

If this season fails and we continue to play this badly then surely we can't back Gerrard and risk the whole  project. It's was a gamble and its odds look longer now than they did when he came in.

We need to improve before the end of the season before we blindly back him. 

If Ten Hag came in, we would have the same problem.

just as an example.....if you was judging a chef, denied him crucial ingredients, would then say, you're no good when the meal wasn't up to scratch.

He needs time and his own team.....There is no plan B, because we haven't got the players for a plan B, they are all much the same.

He has to be given time to make his mark, then judge him.

This team played an instrumental part in getting Dean Smith the sack, so lets not forget that, for starters....Sure all managers play their part too, but lets not put all the blame on the managers, players have a responsibilty to track back work hard etc,etc.

Any new manager would be blindly backed, because there are no Guarantee's as Everton have learnt to their detriment.

When you look at Wolves, they have recruited quite well....but they still only beat us by the odd goal in both games and sit 7th in the league.....getting a few of the RIGHT players in will make all the difference.

[blandy]

55 minutes ago, picicata said:

Everybody wants investment in the squad the worry is that we are going to go large with an inexperienced manager playing a system that only he believes in. As Villa fans we all want to see us succeed. I live in hope that Gerrard will be a success but I don't believe he will be. That's not negativity, that's simply taking all the things we have seen so far into account. 

Gerrard was the wrong choice, too unknown, too inexperienced. 

Yeah, I agree with this.

I also, kind of reluctantly agree with the notion, to an extent, that "it's not his fault, it's the players" . That's because, under 2 different managers for the past, whatever, 12 or so months, the results and performances have been at best inconsistent, and at worst troubling. Which suggests that the comments about the squad needing significant change aren't wrong. Neither manager has been able to find a formation, team selections or tactics which consistently look like we're going in the right direction. And that's with different coaches, as well. So yeah, changing the squad (more than a couple of tweaks) is necessary.

But I can't get over this feeling that Gerrard is not the right person to do it. That he doesn't have the experience of a top league, that he, almost because he was such a good and committed player, can't get his head round connecting with different types of people in his squad, to bring out the best of them. He got the new manager bounce, or results and performances based on "oh wow! this guy's a genuine playing legend and now he's my manager", but that's worn off, clearly. And what's left doesn't look like it's enough to really go anywhere. The match ups with the other sides in the League - I mean most of the other managers and clubs he's up against are more experienced, more tactically capable, not because they are smarter (though some are) but because they've been doing it for longer, seen more problems to overcome and all the rest of it.

I really dislike him saying stuff implying the players aren't good enough - they might not be, some of them, but telling people they're rubbish is not a good tool for team spirit, for motivation, for togetherness and commitment - because you get "why should I play for him, he doesn't rate me" and "he's slagged off my best mate" type responses. We might want players to play for the shirt, for the fans, regardless of who is the manager and whether they like him or not, but humans are humans.

Villa are not going to outgun the top 6 (plus a few others financially), even with our owners, so there has to be another factor there to advance us. I can't see what it is currently. We had something with Deano and Jack Grealish which was a kind of USP that made Villa at the time more than the sum of its parts, but time has moved on. Maybe the famous name manager and attracting unlikely players to the club could be it, but if clubs above us can offer Champions league, bigger wages....then maybe not so much.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, we have come miles since NSWE took over, absolutely miles. But there's a heck of a long way to go and I'm just looking for more of a sign that Gerrard and his coaches have something to help, and I'm struggling to see anything so far. Being good with the media, or having been a cracking player are neither here nor there. Being a "winner" as a player - absolutely no guarantee of anything. More "winners" fail than succeed at management, because what they had was natural to them and therefore so much harder to put across to others not as gifted, than for a manager who was an OK player who had to try and understand what they needed to do to be better and stay in their side  - they have that personal experience to get across to their own players.

So I'm in the "wrong choice" camp, too. I really hope he succeeds, and regardless of my personal thoughts he needs to be given time and a chance and help to do so. I hope he is a quick learner. I guess he is.

[Condimentalist]

6 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I really liked gerrards post match comments, it’s like either buck up your ideas and perform or find another club as that level of performance will not be tolerated at Aston Villa football club for much longer.

Problem is the performances are affected by the tactics. 

The lack of width makes us very dull to watch. It's just about manageable with 2 strikers to run wide and create some space, but with 2 10s it's just so easy to defend against, and contributes to us having no threat on the counter. 

What I find worrying is that Gerrard can't seem to see this. With Smith I always felt like we were watching the same game, even when he got things wrong. Gerrard just seems to want to persist with a half arsed idea and if it's not working then well, it must be the players fault. 

There are things to be positive about under Gerrard but I am far from convinced that he really knows what he's doing, and he has a massive ego to boot.

When we went on a losing run before he tweaked the system and it worked. Let's hope he ditches the Christmas Tree, and maybe we might avoid five defeats in a row again.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

Well Gerrard is ultimately accountable for the playing side of things. So rightly or wrongly the buck stops with him.

If people are saying  Nkamba filled the DM void - surely a player of that ilk could be found.

Targett weak mentally - sure.  But I can see that scenario being replicated over and over - a Gerrard pick comes in - the player sidelined realises he can get PL game time elsewhere so off he goes. We are left with the dignes of this world on Stevie's whim.

If I am being honest Hippo....I have struggled with that for some time.

I think they have only recently started looking.

The buck has to stop with the manager.....but after half a season, is a bit much for axing talk.

Don't forget, he might be a football professional.....but we have seen this team warts 'n all for a lot longer than him and his coaches.

 

[NoelVilla]

16 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yeah, I agree with this.

I also, kind of reluctantly agree with the notion, to an extent, that "it's not his fault, it's the players" . That's because, under 2 different managers for the past, whatever, 12 or so months, the results and performances have been at best inconsistent, and at worst troubling. Which suggests that the comments about the squad needing significant change aren't wrong. Neither manager has been able to find a formation, team selections or tactics which consistently look like we're going in the right direction. And that's with different coaches, as well. So yeah, changing the squad (more than a couple of tweaks) is necessary.

But I can't get over this feeling that Gerrard is not the right person to do it. That he doesn't have the experience of a top league, that he, almost because he was such a good and committed player, can't get his head round connecting with different types of people in his squad, to bring out the best of them. He got the new manager bounce, or results and performances based on "oh wow! this guy's a genuine playing legend and now he's my manager", but that's worn off, clearly. And what's left doesn't look like it's enough to really go anywhere. The match ups with the other sides in the League - I mean most of the other managers and clubs he's up against are more experienced, more tactically capable, not because they are smarter (though some are) but because they've been doing it for longer, seen more problems to overcome and all the rest of it.

I really dislike him saying stuff implying the players aren't good enough - they might not be, some of them, but telling people they're rubbish is not a good tool for team spirit, for motivation, for togetherness and commitment - because you get "why should I play for him, he doesn't rate me" and "he's slagged off my best mate" type responses. We might want players to play for the shirt, for the fans, regardless of who is the manager and whether they like him or not, but humans are humans.

Villa are not going to outgun the top 6 (plus a few others financially), even with our owners, so there has to be another factor there to advance us. I can't see what it is currently. We had something with Deano and Jack Grealish which was a kind of USP that made Villa at the time more than the sum of its parts, but time has moved on. Maybe the famous name manager and attracting unlikely players to the club could be it, but if clubs above us can offer Champions league, bigger wages....then maybe not so much.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, we have come miles since NSWE took over, absolutely miles. But there's a heck of a long way to go and I'm just looking for more of a sign that Gerrard and his coaches have something to help, and I'm struggling to see anything so far. Being good with the media, or having been a cracking player are neither here nor there. Being a "winner" as a player - absolutely no guarantee of anything. More "winners" fail than succeed at management, because what they had was natural to them and therefore so much harder to put across to others not as gifted, than for a manager who was an OK player who had to try and understand what they needed to do to be better and stay in their side  - they have that personal experience to get across to their own players.

So I'm in the "wrong choice" camp, too. I really hope he succeeds, and regardless of my personal thoughts he needs to be given time and a chance and help to do so. I hope he is a quick learner. I guess he is.

Great post. The bit in bold are key. Our squad is built for 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 wide so why not play it until you have the players you wan't for your formation.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, NoelVilla said:

Great post. The bit in bold are key. Our squad is built for 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 wide so why not play it until you have the players you wan't for your formation.

Thanks. I don't think the players really believe in the current system and it's why Gerrard says they only play for half a game - because he has to tell them all off at half time to get them to do better with it. I agree he needs to play in a way that reflects what he's got, not what he'd like to have.

[The_Steve]

21 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

Absolute clown show. Every man was waiting for that Targett transfer to bite us and it has.

Totally and completely unacceptable.  But it's Gerrard. Purslow man. So it's fine.

Targett wanted to leave though

[sne]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I think they have only recently started looking.

 

 

We've been trying and failing to sign this type of players for years. There are tons of links and deals and some supposedly been very close among them Phillips, (Rice on loan), Weston McKennie, Doucoure Pape Matar-Sarr, JWP and so on up to Bentancour and Zakaria in January.

We've looked for this type of players for a long time. As to why we've not been able to get the deals over the line, that's an issue.