Steven Gerrard

[lexicon]

18 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

If he follows most Villa managers he will seemingly age about 5 years in the next 6 months, and develop a thousand yard stare.

We've put many psychiatrist's children through uni thanks to the PTSD therapy sessions our former managers have needed. 

[lexicon]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

Dean Smith had 3 years to fix it.

I think SG is still coming to terms with what he has got in terms of character and style....He  is just waking up to the soft underbelly.

He can't take no responsibilty, that would be folly, but in mooching around with the system, for solutions,  he has made it worse.

However, I see somethings that I struggle to blame on the system or tactics.....as ONE example, Dignes decision to stand off Sarr for their goal.....was piss poor IMO.....

I am not saying you are wrong by the way, this midfield is vulnerable and to play wing backs to me is just adding to the vulnerability.....but the players do things poorly, regularly that are hard to blame on anyone but themselves.

Digne is his player, though, and was bought to fit into his system. 

Re: your second point, we know full well that they are capable of better than this because we've seen them perform well many times. We were told that the 'high standards of a born winner' would help them kick on and be better, but we've only seen the opposite so far, while Gerrard slumps into his chair looking devoid of ideas. 

Whichever way you want to look at it, what we've seen is not nearly good enough. This team is capable of a hell of a lot more and Gerrard looks lost right now. I'm a fan of actions rather than the words and what we've seen so far is basically someone in way over their head. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

55 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its an easy cop out to blame managers after a defeat, its the common go to......and an easier cop out to blame him after 3 months, after taking over a squad that had won so few,

In the last calendar year 2021....we have played 42 games, won 15 - drawn 6 - lost 21.

That is under 2 managers, not much more than 40 points expected at that rate.

Whatever the conclusions, folk come to.....this is not an easy job to fix, and IMO money alone, will not fix it.

There are other clubs like Everton having similar issues, after spending huge sums of money....its a tough gig, at the minute.

It's down to the finest of margins.

So that's why elements which seem minor on the surface, and are discredited by people, are actually much bigger than they think.

This is also where player effort comes in.

Remember in the past, how even when Ollie wasn't scoring, most people were staunchly in defense of him for his work rate, his hold up play, bringing other people into the game, chasing lost causes leading to chance and goal creation etc? That Ollie is gone.

I'd argue that now, Buendia is probably the hardest working player.

Now, so many times i've seen a winnable 50 | 50 turn into an opposition chance or ball win, simply due to one of our players going in half arsed, not tracking back, or chasing etc.

Most times, when the effort is there, even if everything isn't coming off, and games are scrappy, you can pull off a result, with a moment of quality from our forwards, but recently, that effort has been severely lacking.

To touch on your earlier point re " subs " , in my view, this is where Gerrards " fine margins "  and timing count.

While as you say, some of the players on the bench might be " the same type " of player, they might come in, and put in more effort for 50 | 50, intensity etc and unbalance opposition, plus rile up our own.

Add to all the above, it's why an  " average " player like Nakamba or his ilk, make such a difference to this system, it helps pick up slack where others are falling, and allow the rest of the team to do the " enjoyable part ".

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sparrow1988]

38 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

If he follows most Villa managers he will seemingly age about 5 years in the next 6 months, and develop a thousand yard stare.

Lambert at Villa

Lambert at Blackburn (after Villa)

[Dale]

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Digne is his player, though, and was bought to fit into his system. 

Re: your second point, we know full well that they are capable of better than this because we've seen them perform well many times. We were told that the 'high standards of a born winner' would help them kick on and be better, but we've only seen the opposite so far, while Gerrard slumps into his chair looking devoid of ideas. 

Whichever way you want to look at it, what we've seen is not nearly good enough. This team is capable of a hell of a lot more and Gerrard looks lost right now. I'm a fan of actions rather than the words and what we've seen so far is basically someone in way over their head. 

So not a job for a rookie. 

[Dale]

17 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Dean Smith had 3 years to fix it.

And generally we spent the entire time getting better. 

[lexicon]

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

So not a job for a rookie. 

Nope - which was what people who were skeptical of the link and then appointment said at the time tbf. 

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

And generally we spent the entire time getting better. 

You're quoting TRO there, not me 

Largely, yes. We went through some bad spells while Smith went on one of his learning curves but he usually emerged better for it. I thought the whole point of replacing him was to get someone in who wouldn't need to learn on the job as much, when in reality we went for someone with even less top-league senior experience (i.e. none.)

[Philosopher]

I actually think Gerrard has to take some blame for Ollie and Ings poor performance infront of goal. As both like to run the left channel and come inside. However Gerrard is playing them right down the middle.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

44 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

I actually think Gerrard has to take some blame for Ollie and Ings poor performance infront of goal. As both like to run the left channel and come inside. However Gerrard is playing them right down the middle. 

In the same token, if you suggest playing them out left, people go nuts, so which one is it?

With this theory, sure either would be better starting wide left then?

Ollie has been shite since before SG came in this season.

I thought a CF | Forward was meant to start in the centre in any of the systems we've played the last few years? On paper at least.

[hippo]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Its an easy cop out to blame managers after a defeat, its the common go to......and an easier cop out to blame him after 3 months, after taking over a squad that had won so few,

In the last calendar year 2021....we have played 42 games, won 15 - drawn 6 - lost 21.

That is under 2 managers, not much more than 40 points expected at that rate.

Whatever the conclusions, folk come to.....this is not an easy job to fix, and IMO money alone, will not fix it.

There are other clubs like Everton having similar issues, after spending huge sums of money....its a tough gig, at the minute.

He has taken over such a squad as you say. But in Digne + Coutinho he has added £65m of talent to it. With little effect in terms of results he has also had a mini pre season (his words) to work with the players.

If it all come together between May and August then great but that looks optimistic to me.

[maqroll]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I accept that.....but as other fans have commented......why is it we can't do some of the basics, like cross a ball in the the middle of the box for a runner, its often over hit?......why are some first touches, way off?.......why do we allow runners to go unchecked?

why are we so easily relieved of the ball?........is that systems?

Its basic stuff.

Well, I think confidence is shot. So Gerrard has to fix that. We've got to put in a good performance v Brighton, bag all 3 points and keeping working. 

[Chicken Field]

A thing that I find is happening too me, and probably most Gerrard doubters, is that we never wanted Gerrard in the first place. As petty and stupid as it seems, for a manager to be given a time to develop, he must be desired in the first place. 

This does not mean Gerrard wont be supported, but patience will run thin much quicker. Much like a lesser version of Benitez at Everton. I really wish directors and owners would consider the fans reactions to a new manager before hiring, because as much as peole like to act otherwise, it is important and effects the genera feeling, patience etc around the club. Its especially important when we are talking about a young manager who is still developing. 

 

Absolutr best case i see with gerrard, is that he leaves for liverpool, he wont even have to do a particularly good job for that too happen, look at solskjær and Lampard. Ridiculous appointment imo

Edited February 23, 2022 by Chicken Field

[hippo]

23 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

A thing that I find is happening too me, and probably most Gerrard doubters, is that we never wanted Gerrard in the first place. As petty and stupid as it seems, for a manager to be given a time to develop, he must be desired in the first place. 

This does not mean Gerrard wont be supported, but patience will run thin much quicker. Much like a lesser version of Benitez at Everton. I really wish directors and owners would consider the fans reactions to a new manager before hiring, because as much as peole like to act otherwise, it is important and effects the genera feeling, patience etc around the club. Its especially important when we are talking about a young manager who is still developing. 

 

Absolutr best case i see with gerrard, is that he leaves for liverpool, he wont even have to do a particularly good job for that too happen, look at solskjær and Lampard. Ridiculous appointment imo

Bang on.

Rightly or wrongly there were a good whack of people were opposed to SG from day  one. (See the early reactions in this thread) - thus the tolerance for Stevie G not performing was always very low.

The club must have been aware of this - not sure why they went out on such a limb for SG. Hopefully they prove us wrong. Stevie G failing could get very ugly indeed.

Edited February 23, 2022 by hippo

[jimmygreaves]

26 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

A thing that I find is happening too me, and probably most Gerrard doubters, is that we never wanted Gerrard in the first place. As petty and stupid as it seems, for a manager to be given a time to develop, he must be desired in the first place. 

Quite right.

It's also worth pointing out that those questioning the appointment were worried about the lack of managerial pedigree, rather any kind of emotional "hatred" of Liverpool or Gerrard.

We should have installed someone better than Smith. There was no evidence that Gerrard is.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

24 minutes ago, hippo said:

Bang on.

Rightly or wrongly there were a good whack of people were opposed to SG from day  one. (See the early reactions in this thread) - thus the tolerance for Stevie G not performing was always very low.

The club must have been aware of this - not sure why they went out on such a limb for SG. Hopefully they prove us wrong. Stevie G failing could get very ugly indeed.

If it all goes tits up, I wonder if Purslows head goes on the chopping block?

It would surely? Or does him being a minority stakeholder prevent this?

But yeah I agree with the OP to a certain extent, aside from the last paragraph. If he doesn't do well with us, no way does he go straight to Liverpool as manager.

Pool are much better run than United.

If he fails here, he ends up back in Scotland, or at a lesser PL or top tier Championship club IMO, first, at least.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

51 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

A thing that I find is happening too me, and probably most Gerrard doubters, is that we never wanted Gerrard in the first place. As petty and stupid as it seems, for a manager to be given a time to develop, he must be desired in the first place. 

This does not mean Gerrard wont be supported, but patience will run thin much quicker. Much like a lesser version of Benitez at Everton. I really wish directors and owners would consider the fans reactions to a new manager before hiring, because as much as peole like to act otherwise, it is important and effects the genera feeling, patience etc around the club. Its especially important when we are talking about a young manager who is still developing. 

 

Absolutr best case i see with gerrard, is that he leaves for liverpool, he wont even have to do a particularly good job for that too happen, look at solskjær and Lampard. Ridiculous appointment imo

Agree in principle except for the last paragraph.

On to your overall point though, it would mean the club both underestimated the love Deano had here, and simultaneously over estimated what Gerrard could do.

IMO, still way too early to decipher the latter though.

[a m ole]

I was cautious of sacking Smith without a clear better alternative, I was cautious of hiring Gerrard with his experience and I’m cautious of sacking Gerrard without a clear better alternative and without giving him time.

I want to allow Gerrard and Beale, who we know is more the architect of the system, to get it right and find alternatives that work against good sides week in week out and I think they can. I do also want to see better decision making regarding the first XI and the bench and less sticking with the status quo because we’re (ironically) scared of change. use the fat **** squad Steve.

[sparrow1988]

7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If it all goes tits up, I wonder if Purslows head goes on the chopping block?

It would surely? Or does him being a minority stakeholder prevent this?

But yeah I agree with the OP to a certain extent, aside from the last paragraph. If he doesn't do well with us, no way does he go straight to Liverpool as manager.

Pool are much better run than United.

If he fails here, he ends up back in Scotland, or at a lesser PL or top tier Championship club IMO, first, at least.

I'd imagne that it ends up in a scene like this one...

 

[blandy]

16 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

We should have installed someone better than Smith. There was no evidence that Gerrard is.

Indeed. But to be fair, managers have to get a chance to prove themselves, somewhere.

I felt appointing Gerrard was high risk (and sacking Deano was premature, though many would disagree, I accept).

The thing with SG is the complete change in level of opponent. OK, he started with Liverpool's youngsters and reserves and then moved up a level to Scotland's league. But the problem there is there are only two well resourced clubs, who pretty much control the trophy hall themselves. Most weeks, those two teams have better players (by far), better support and face opposing managers who are some way short of top quality. The persistence and consistency of the opponents being much weaker against the two Glasgow teams means their managers don't have to adapt, can win with most any tactics, due to inherently better players, and it's also the case that the level of analysis done by opponents on them is much less than for the PL.

It's very apparent with Villa now, under Gerrard, that we've been sussed. First few games the players all put in extra levels of effort and fight (new manager bounce) and the oppo were presented with something unfamiliar. But against Newcastle and Watford, those two sides knew exactly how to counter our strengths and tactics before the games started. Gerrard hasn't really been hit like that up to yet in his career, where the oppo have players of similar levels and the oppo have analysed his side, worked out how to combat the way we play and then set their own traps and plans. And he sat there, slumped in his seat. Not pro-active, not even reactive, just inactive.

I've nothing against him. First impressions early on were good. I hope he succeeds in overcoming the issues and he seems the type who can and will work hard to do so, but....the verdict so far is not a positive one, considering the downwards trend of results and performances.