Steven Gerrard

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

for me it was the “Smith Out” posters would often say it’s not their job to choose the next manager and while I get that, the consequences of doing that and not looking at where we go means the grass isn’t always greener.  We now have a massive risk which could go extremely well but also extremely bad.  Some will always say we were heading for extremely bad under Smith which I obviously don’t agree with.  

I think for me, I see it in a more separated way. We didn't replace Dean Smith with Steven Gerrard because the club think Gerrard is a much better manager.

We sacked Dean Smith based on results - I love the fella, and I think he's a very good manager, but I understand that. You need to have an awful lot behind you to survive losing five on the trot nowadays - that's ultimately what did for him. He's a good manager that wasn't performing.

Then we had nothing.

Now we've got Gerrard.

How Smith and Gerrard would have compared is immaterial, we don't have Smith anymore and didn't have Smith when we got Gerrard. 

I want Gerrard to do well, but well isn't necessarily about better or worse than Smith would have done - Smith is gone - we need Gerrard to be a good manager for the sake of the football club.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[AvonVillain]

2 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Gerrard said something along the lines of it would take him 20 years to get to the level of knowledge or coaching of Beale. So he just lets him do his thing basically. 

It's odd though isn't it, if you think of all the impeccable managers he played under, you can't help but wonder why he wouldn't have at least the same, if not greater knowledge of what good coaching looks like. Saying that, that would make Roy Keane a super-genius at coaching/motivation/managing  given the 2 legendary managers he played under. Guess it just doesn't work like that.

[Tom13]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

It’s not for lack of trying. Let’s see how McGinn gets on under this new team. They’ll obviously be aware of his qualities for Scotland so I hope they use him similarly. 

I'm not sure Scotland's playing style is one we'd want to be copying. I'm biased towards players with high levels of technical skill though as that's the style I enjoy watching the most. Love McGinn just not convinced by him at this level, but I don't think we'll ever agree on that

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, GazRFC said:

Never once have we played hoofball mate. The reason his old firm record is so good is that he ensures the midfield battle is won consistently so yes I can 100% see you him improving the midfield 

Welcome to VT.

Question I would like ask is does Gerrard get less nauseating over time ?

[nick76]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

Surely Nick it cant be any worse that what it was. Theres going to be some improvement!

It can easily be worse.  Despite a 5 game losing streak and a bad 2021, I don’t think there was any chance Smith was going to get us relegated.  A new, inexperienced at this level manager could easily go wrong.  The chances are low I grant you but this is unknown territory and we may fly or sink and the risk imo is far greater than it was with Smith.  We literally have no idea how Gerrard will get on a side from a few years in Scotland.  I know we could say that about any manager but I don’t think anybody can argue this is still a huge gamble. We pray it pays off.

[OutByEaster?]

5 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

What about when they're not putting in performances and hindering like the team? Like McGinn does quite often?

What about when they're digging out performances and helping the team? Like McGinn does quite often?

The nature of being against the wall is that results aren't great, that usually means performances aren't great - in that situation you have to trust a manager to have faith in players that he trusts, to try to pull them into form because he knows what they can give - especially in a team like ours where there aren't a lot of alternatives.

[Mark Albrighton]

28 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I worry for Gerrard a bit on this basis - more than fifteen points is essentially losing to Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City (possibly the three best club sides in the world today) and then winning at least five of the other six games and not losing any of them. If he does that he's an absolute genius.

I think if people are expecting us to get fifteen points from the those games, then Gerrard might find himself under unnecessary pressure by Christmas.

I think it also stresses just how important the game against Brighton is - if he wins it, it'll buy him some grace through the tough run between that one and Norwich.

 

Yeah agreed.

For the record, I had 14 points as the realistic best case points return. I look at the games against Brighton, Palace, Norwich, Burnley and Leeds as the “winnable” games - although I’m not expecting to win each one, then add maybe a draw or two against the Man City, Liverpool, Leicester and Chelsea.

If Villa picked up more than 15 points from that lot, that would be a pretty strong start for Steven and I’d probably consider readjusting my expectations for the remainder of the season.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Mark Albrighton

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

It can easily be worse.  Despite a 5 game losing streak and a bad 2021, I don’t think there was any chance Smith was going to get us relegated.  A new, inexperienced at this level manager could easily go wrong.  The chances are low I grant you but this is unknown territory and we may fly or sink and the risk imo is far greater than it was with Smith.  We literally have no idea how Gerrard will get on a side from a few years in Scotland.  I know we could say that about any manager but I don’t think anybody can argue this is still a huge gamble. We pray it pays off.

I think there was a chance and I think there still is. 

[IrishVilla10]

3 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

It's odd though isn't it, if you think of all the impeccable managers he played under, you can't help but wonder why he wouldn't have at least the same, if not greater knowledge of what good coaching looks like. Saying that, that would make Roy Keane a super-genius at coaching/motivation/managing  given the 2 legendary managers he played under. Guess it just doesn't work like that.

Beale stopped playing at 21 and has been a coach since that’s the key. He literally has been coaching 17+ years more than Gerrard 

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Yeah agreed.

For the record, I had 14 points as the realistic best case points return. I look at the games against Brighton, Palace, Norwich, Burnley and Leeds as the “winnable” games - although I’m not expecting to win each one, then add maybe a draw or two against the Man City, Liverpool, Leicester and Chelsea.

If Villa picked up more than 15 points from that lot, that would be a pretty strong start for Steve and I’d probably consider readjusting my expectations for the remainder of the season.

If he picks up more than 15 points from that lot, we should build him a statue!

I'm going with nine and wobbling between eight and ten depending on how optimistic I feel. 

[IrishVilla10]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

What about when they're digging out performances and helping the team? Like McGinn does quite often?

The nature of being against the wall is that results aren't great, that usually means performances aren't great - in that situation you have to trust a manager to have faith in players that he trusts, to try to pull them into form because he knows what they can give - especially in a team like ours where there aren't a lot of alternatives.

We’re a better team with McGinn playing no doubt, and I’d put money on him being a starter in Gerrards team 

[OutByEaster?]

9 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

It's odd though isn't it, if you think of all the impeccable managers he played under, you can't help but wonder why he wouldn't have at least the same, if not greater knowledge of what good coaching looks like. 

Maybe he does and for him good coaching looks like Michael Beale working on the training pitch?

 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

@Tom13 I can’t find that video now mate. I think it’s been removed. Was probably same one on Twitter.

I think this is the link u are looking for

https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/november/07/club-statement-dean-smith/

It is at the bottom of the club statement

Quote

Aston Villa Football Club can confirm that the Club have parted company with Head Coach Dean Smith.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

33 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

Apart from it being repeated over and over, how do we know/why do people think that Beale is 'the brains of the operation'?

The closest I got to clarity was Gerrard in one of those High Performance podcasts approximately a year ago talking about how he bought Beale in because he had 15-20 years coaching experience behind him at a top level and that he trusts him to know better than he does himself. Possibly the following one, but I cba to listen to it again. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think this is the link u are looking for

https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/november/07/club-statement-dean-smith/

It is at the bottom of the club statement

 

That’s the one. Cheers mate.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think for me, I see it in a more separated way. We didn't replace Dean Smith with Steven Gerrard because the club think Gerrard is a much better manager.

We sacked Dean Smith based on results - I love the fella, and I think he's a very good manager, but I understand that. You need to have an awful lot behind you to survive losing five on the trot nowadays - that's ultimately what did for him. He's a good manager that wasn't performing.

Then we had nothing.

Now we've got Gerrard.

How Smith and Gerrard would have compared is immaterial, we don't have Smith anymore and didn't have Smith when we got Gerrard. 

I want Gerrard to do well, but well isn't necessarily about better or worse than Smith would have done - Smith is gone - we need Gerrard to be a good manager for the sake of the football club.

I hope that makes sense.

 

I honestly dont think it worked that way, I think we may have tapped Gerrard before making the more.  Things happened so quickly and smoothly, it wouldnt surprise me if there wasnt some friendly feelers put out before sacking Smith knowing that Gerrard would come before letting go of Smith.  I know it's not right and we could get into trouble but I think it might be a little naive to think this was Smith sacked and then we looked for a replacement.  What they say publicly will be different but I think this may have been in the works, maybe that's even the reason Gerrard turned down Newcastle a month ago because this was already in the works.  We'll never know.

I think if the above was the case then I'm delighted they thought that Smith should be sacked and lined up his replacement before hand, for me that's is good business and protecting the club.  If they did sack Smith and then started the search I think that is a little naive of them, we couldve had month or so without a manager and ended up with option 6 like Spurs did in the summer.

So I think they did think it was time for a change and did think Gerrard would be better than Smith and thus made it happen.

[Johnnyp]

Interesting. Didn’t think he thought as deep, just a faulty perception you’d have of people.

[OutByEaster?]

I'd also imagine that while Beale puts in a lot of work on the training ground, Gerrard also lumps in with his bit, in way that's similar to the way that Smith would have Terry occasionally take a session or rotate the assistants - players like that variety and it gives the coaching team more time to plan sessions that keep them focused and interested.

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I think there was a chance and I think there still is. 

Fair enough, I dont agree but it's all about opinion and we'll never know.

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, nick76 said:

So I think they did think it was time for a change and did think Gerrard would be better than Smith and thus made it happen.

I'm not saying that they didn't have the feelers out, I'm sure the club have the feelers out all the time and I'm sure they'd have had a quiet chat with Gerrard on a couple of occasions - but I think if we'd beaten Southampton, Smith would still be here. 

I don't think they found Gerrard was interested so they moved Smith on - I think they keep an eye on people in case they find themselves in a situation where they need someone - that's a subtle but important difference.