Energy Bills

[Genie]

They could have just cut the VAT (like they said they would). It’s the perfect time to release a Brexit benefit, but no, it was obviously another lie.

[foreveryoung]

Correct me if im wrong, but isn't it  bo*****s anyway, be that energy is bought in bulk 2 years in advance so the energy we are using now is not actually the price rise energy.

[Xann]

Privatising then shutting down 70% of the gas storage capacity helped set this up.

Quote

 

Few would disagree that a lower reliance on gas would safeguard the UK against global market spikes. But many fear the UK’s low storage levels have left it exposed to higher prices and the risk of shortages this winter.

The Labour MP Stephanie Peacock accused the government of leaving the UK “vulnerable” to crisis and called on Kwarteng to admit that the closure of the country’s main gas storage site off the east coast four years ago was “a mistake”.

The Rough storage facility, owned by Centrica, the parent company of British Gas, provided 70% of the UK gas storage capacity for more than 30 years before it shut in 2017 following a government decision not to subsidise the costly maintenance and upgrades needed to keep the site going.

 

Grauniad

The cynical might think the country was being run to make a handful of people obscenely wealthy.

[Genie]

Link
 

Quote

Oil giant BP has reported its highest profit for eight years, amid calls for a windfall tax on energy companies.

BP posted a profit of $12.8bn (£9.5bn) for 2021, and it made more than $4bn in the final quarter of the year when oil and gas prices surged.

The jump in energy prices means households are facing huge increases in gas and electricity bills from April. 

Labour said it was "only fair and right" that energy firms making higher profits should pay more tax.

Last week, rival oil giant Shell also reported bumper profits of $19bn on the same day that the energy regulator announced UK householders would see a 54% rise in their domestic energy bills in April.

Energy companies recording record profits and the people face a cost of living crisis and can’t heat their homes. Does Rishi Sunak really believe there’s nothing he can do? 
An absolute disgrace. 

[Ingram85]

If we carry on on this pathway of the rich and the well off just taking the complete piss out of the rest of us (I know it’s always happened but it’s just gotten worse recently) what do we do? I’d like to think an uprising but we are too lazy as a nation. 

[mjmooney]

[lapal_fan]

On 05/02/2022 at 09:18, foreveryoung said:

Correct me if im wrong, but isn't it  bo*****s anyway, be that energy is bought in bulk 2 years in advance so the energy we are using now is not actually the price rise energy.

2 years in advance?  Huh? 

That's not how it works. 

The UK has storage for about 2 weeks at full use, if the storage capacity is 100% full, which is never is. 

"The UK currently has around nine terawatt hours of stored gas reserves, compared to 168 in Italy and 151 in Germany, according to the latest figures from Gas Infrastructure Europe, meaning its capacity is equivalent to roughly 2 per cent of its annual demand"

https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2021/09/how-the-uks-low-gas-storage-capacity-leaves-it-vulnerable#:~:text=The UK currently has around,per cent in Europe's four - from September when things started to go awry. 

Your personal energy contracts can be "locked-in" for a period of time (up to 3 years), but that's why the small energy companies have gone bust, because they've said to everyone "we can give you your gas for 2.5p/kWh", but the wholesale price goes up to 5p/kWh, so they lose money hand over fist. 

The REASON the small companies like Peoples Energy went bust is because they operated on the hope the wholesale price of energy didn't go above their magical figure, but it did and will continue to do so.

As for gas storage (the claret and blue gasometers are probably our best example here), half of them around the country have been sold for development.  There's famous former gasometer sites in London where the cages are still present, but there are luxury flats built on the inside of them. 

As @chrisp65 tapped the nail on the thread earlier in this topic, energy initiatives will become very appealing now, with pay-backs shorter than they've ever been, but how many people who really need help have a spare couple of thousand £'s to implement them?  Once again it's the people who HAVE spare cash who benefit, which isn't particularly fair   

 

 

 

[lapal_fan]

1 hour ago, Ingram85 said:

If we carry on on this pathway of the rich and the well off just taking the complete piss out of the rest of us (I know it’s always happened but it’s just gotten worse recently) what do we do? I’d like to think an uprising but we are too lazy as a nation. 

The problem with that, is that the people who are getting the piss taken out of them are exactly the ones who aspire to be one of them (but never will) and almost see themselves in their position, so think "if I change it now, once I get there, it won't be as good". 

Hope's a killer on occasion  

[tinker]

What I don't get is the payments for the failed energy companies that are being added to our bills, I don't know anyone who's energy provider failed not pay their monthly bill , where has this money gone?

Why does the consumer have to bail out failed businesses? 

This whole mess is why energy companies should be nationalised, no vital commodity should be at the whims of the commercial markets.

 

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, tinker said:

What I don't get is the payments for the failed energy companies that are being added to our bills, I don't know anyone who's energy provider failed not pay their monthly bill , where has this money gone?

Why does the consumer have to bail out failed businesses? 

This whole mess is why energy companies should be nationalised, no vital commodity should be at the whims of the commercial markets.

 

Lots of money to be saved using companies tbf.

I saved the Worcestershire NHS Trust £1m last year on gas alone by recommending they lock in.

I've since left that Trust and this year (not down them obviously, but world markets) their gas will be going from £1m to £3.5-ish. 

Had I not recommended that proposal, they'd have paid around £2m anyway.  

I get the argument, i do, but a lot of money has been saved verses Trusts/other public organisations eg HMCTS, who still use Crown Commercial Services (CCS) to leverage their deals.

BGB for example are without doubt the worst company to do anything with (I'm now stuck with them until this shit shows over). 

[Genie]

33 minutes ago, tinker said:

What I don't get is the payments for the failed energy companies that are being added to our bills, I don't know anyone who's energy provider failed not pay their monthly bill , where has this money gone?

Why does the consumer have to bail out failed businesses? 

This whole mess is why energy companies should be nationalised, no vital commodity should be at the whims of the commercial markets.

 

As soon as PE went under I cancelled my DD with them and would settle it all once they transferred my balance to the SOLR (British Gas). I was worried the money would vanish.

Its still a bit messy because I seem to have left PE in mid September, and my first bill from BG started in November so there’s a gap. Also, PE recently told me that my closing balance was actually a credit of £55 which would eventually go over to BG. 

I’ve no idea whats going on at the moment though but it’s currently in my favour. I strongly suspect it’ll catch up though at some point. 

[Genie]

31 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Lots of money to be saved using companies tbf.

I saved the Worcestershire NHS Trust £1m last year on gas alone by recommending they lock in.

I've since left that Trust and this year (not down them obviously, but world markets) their gas will be going from £1m to £3.5-ish. 

Had I not recommended that proposal, they'd have paid around £2m anyway.  

I get the argument, i do, but a lot of money has been saved verses Trusts/other public organisations eg HMCTS, who still use Crown Commercial Services (CCS) to leverage their deals.

BGB for example are without doubt the worst company to do anything with (I'm now stuck with them until this shit shows over). 

This makes me wonder how much the energy rises are going to cost “the government” in terms of the NHS, Police, Schools, Fire Service, Councils etc etc? It must be billions.

So Rishi Sunak could have forced the cap much lower and not only helped the general public but also his own balance sheet. But instead he’s happy for them to rack up multibillion pound profits.

I have a feeling I know where his next job will be.
 

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

This makes me wonder how much the energy rises are going to cost “the government” in terms of the NHS, Police, Schools, Fire Service, Councils etc etc? It must be billions.

So Rishi Sunak could have forced the cap much lower and not only helped the general public but also his own balance sheet. But instead he’s happy for them to rack up multibillion pound profits.

I have a feeling I know where his next job will be.
 

Hadn't crossed my mind, but yea, maybe..  He'll do very well (even better) for himself than most of the others in this cabinet - at least he's knowledgeable in his own field.

As yes, .Gov's energy bills will be hundreds of million.  HMCTS (one part of the wider MoJ) costs nearly £30m a year NOW.  I'm doing estimates for their next budget.

An no, you won't see me in the "watches" thread, despite saving all this money!   

[OutByEaster?]

33 minutes ago, Genie said:

I have a feeling I know where his next job will be.

You think he needs a job?

 

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You think he needs a job?

 

Lots of rich people will work, otherwise, how do you get super rich? 

[Davkaus]

42 minutes ago, Genie said:

This makes me wonder how much the energy rises are going to cost “the government” in terms of the NHS, Police, Schools, Fire Service, Councils etc etc? It must be billions.

So Rishi Sunak could have forced the cap much lower and not only helped the general public but also his own balance sheet. But instead he’s happy for them to rack up multibillion pound profits.

I have a feeling I know where his next job will be.
 

The cap is for residential use only, so the government is actually better off due to raking in more from VAT

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The cap is for residential use only, so the government is actually better off due to raking in more from VAT

How does that work? (Genuinely interested rather than a ploy to catch you out).

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

How does that work? (Genuinely interested rather than a ploy to catch you out).

Higher price, higher VAT content of the bill

Absolutely impossible to remove that VAT /s

[ender4]

Just now, Genie said:

How does that work? (Genuinely interested rather than a ploy to catch you out).

If commercial bills are going up by 50%, then the UK govt gets 50% extra VAT from businesses.   This is probably higher than any money they would have lost by helping residential households with a lower cap and subsiding the difference. 

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Higher price, higher VAT content of the bill

Absolutely impossible to remove that VAT /s

But the 80% non-VAT part of the bill is also higher which has to be spent. Also, if it’s uncapped then it’s much higher. 

I guess more VAT from private businesses covers extra energy cost of government but would be interesting to see how it aligns.