Nigel Posted January 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2022 58 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I'm basing it on a few tweets, so am unwilling to vouch for the veracity of my information! I do remember talk of the 50% in the summer though as it was being pointed out how much more flexible Barca would have been if they'd sold Messi in January. I could tweet you my post if that helps (I'm lying....I have no idea how to tweet) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: No. I'm saying as we're tight with FFP it could give us valuable wiggle room to outbid on some frees for the summer. I could have also said we can bid £10m more for a player, but I used the frees as an example because it's likely to be the most effective use of limited money for long-term signings as opposed to a 6 month loan. If we qualify for Europe the Coutinho signing would be vindicated, otherwise it would be a bit pointless albeit fun. i know this is not the FFP thread and I don't want to derail, but I don't believe we are tight with FFP. We sold a player for 100m 6 months ago and with amortisation this gives us a huge amount of wiggle room. I am not sure I get the frees as being the most effective use of our money logic. Regardless of the cost of a player, whether free, 50m or on 40k a week or 200k a week, it is only effective use of money if they deliver on the pitch. Then the decision comes down to which player would be more effective for Villa Coutinho or unknown freebie. Also, we get about 3.5m extra per each finishing position in the PL. So even if we do not qualify for Europe, if Countinho can help us to finish 2 places higher in the league then that is worth 7m and will have paid for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: i know this is not the FFP thread and I don't want to derail, but I don't believe we are tight with FFP. We sold a player for 100m 6 months ago and with amortisation this gives us a huge amount of wiggle room. I am not sure I get the frees as being the most effective use of our money logic. Regardless of the cost of a player, whether free, 50m or on 40k a week or 200k a week, it is only effective use of money if they deliver on the pitch. Then the decision comes down to which player would be more effective for Villa Coutinho or unknown freebie. Also, we get about 3.5m extra per each finishing position in the PL. So even if we do not qualify for Europe, if Countinho can help us to finish 2 places higher in the league then that is worth 7m and will have paid for him. It's the cost of an infinite number of missed possibilities. Could that money be more effectively spent elsewhere as there's only so much we can achieve this season. The details of the example I pulled out of my arse are irrelevant, as the point I was making wasn't at all about signing free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Boubacar Kamara for Man United it seems so unlikely we can get him if that type of club are interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 I did not realise Digne was only 28. I do hope we're in for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Just now, Sam-AVFC said: It's the cost of an infinite number of missed possibilities. Could that money be more effectively spent elsewhere as there's only so much we can achieve this season. The details of the example I pulled out of my arse are irrelevant, as the point I was making wasn't at all about signing free agents. But what is the difference between that argument and saying that the cost of taking other opportunities and not taking the opportunity of signing Coutinho? Unless one knows what the propositions are it is impossible to assess an opportunity cost. For every single transfer every club make, it could be argued there is an opportunity cost of not pursuing a different strategy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Also, we get about 3.5m extra per each finishing position in the PL. So even if we do not qualify for Europe, if Countinho can help us to finish 2 places higher in the league then that is worth 7m and will have paid for him. Mate, are you on board with an attacking loan now? You dismissed me a week ago when I mentioned an attacking loan as an idea as our attacking players are struggling and you said part of the reason it hindered youth. Genuinely, what changed your mind that this maybe a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: But what is the difference between that argument and saying that the cost of taking other opportunities and not taking the opportunity of signing Coutinho? Unless one knows what the propositions are it is impossible to assess an opportunity cost. For every single transfer every club make, it could be argued there is an opportunity cost of not pursuing a different strategy I was just trying to stimulate an interesting discussion as I'm not sure how I feel about it. More fool me. Coutinho is obviously a way better player than any of our previous January loans, that's not up for debate. There is a discussion to be had if it's the best way to spend the money though - to save us going round it again I've noted your opinion as a firm yes. The bolded is kind of why this site exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, nick76 said: Mate, are you on board with an attacking loan now? You dismissed me a week ago when I mentioned an attacking loan as an idea as our attacking players are struggling and you said part of the reason it hindered youth. Genuinely, what changed your mind that this maybe a good idea? I would prefer defensive players to attacking players, I think they are needed more. That hasn't changed. Coutinho is an interesting proposition as he is a genuinely world class player and the type of player I hadn't expected us to be linked with or had a chance of signing for quite a few years. The discussion above is about the opportunity cost of brining in Coutinho. My point is that unless we have something to compare it to then it can't be seen as a negative based on the opportunity cost. I would love to see us invest in a really top class full back, a really top class CB and a really top class CDM. But this would cost us 150m+ and maybe 500k a week in wages, so signing Coutinho doesn't compete with this. The cost of a loan signing for 6 months won't make much of a dent what I would like see done for our team. Would I take Coutinho for 6 months at the expense of playing our kids? Yes. The reason being is that he is a mega star. The non footballing benefits are very significant and he is one of the very very few players that is a game changer and could directly be responsible for us finishing higher up the table. I can't think of another player in the world that I feel is attainable that could make this difference. Signing Coutinho is like signing someone of deBruyne's quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Boubacar Kamara for Man United it seems so unlikely we can get him if that type of club are interested him and Van De Beek can sit next to each other while McFred and Matic somehow start weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Kaveh Solhekol is dumber then a box of Leeds fans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Boubacar Kamara for Man United it seems so unlikely we can get him if that type of club are interested Not sure, maybe a lot of agent fishing, he's available to sign now, been linked with a lot of clubs last year and yet seemingly no one has offered a contract yet I think it's aim for the stars and hit the moon stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Just now, Phil Silvers said: Kaveh Solhekol is dumber then a box of Leeds fans. He's reason enough to never turn that channel on ever again, him and that other muppet are con men, not even particularly well informed or charismatic ones either, not sure what the appeal is with them or how SSN thought they were the answer to people realising Jim White is a dick, its like they doubled down 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I was just trying to stimulate an interesting discussion as I'm not sure how I feel about it. More fool me. Coutinho is obviously a way better player than any of our previous January loans, that's not up for debate. There is a discussion to be had if it's the best way to spend the money though - to save us going round it again I've noted your opinion as a firm yes. The bolded is kind of why this site exists. Sorry, I am not trying to down your discussion, I am just engaging. For me the priority at Villa should be defensive players. I think we need major upgrade on FB, CB and CDM. But as per comment above in response to Nick, this would cost major ££££. Coutinho is an interesting option for a loan because he is a proper world class player and signing him would be Villa punching above our weight imo Edited January 5, 2022 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: He's reason enough to never turn that channel on ever again, him and that other muppet are con men, not even particularly well informed or charismatic ones either, not sure what the appeal is with them or how SSN thought they were the answer to people realising Jim White is a dick, its like they doubled down They are on there because they are happy to forego integrity and go along with whatever narrative sky wish to push. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Not sure, maybe a lot of agent fishing, he's available to sign now, been linked with a lot of clubs last year and yet seemingly no one has offered a contract yet I think it's aim for the stars and hit the moon stuff I am thinking he doesn't want to move in Jan and he wants a free transfer in the summer with a big sign on fee and huge wages due to lack of transfer fee. I think his agent is just generating the interest and profile of him for the summer. I hope I am wrong and that we can pick him up on the cheap now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I am thinking he doesn't want to move in Jan and he wants a free transfer in the summer with a big sign on fee and huge wages due to lack of transfer fee. I think his agent is just generating the interest and profile of him for the summer. I hope I am wrong and that we can pick him up on the cheap now I think that's exactly what it is, linked some big clubs to drum up interest and drive up the demands before joining a mid table - European challenging team in the summer on wages that are higher than they should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I am thinking he doesn't want to move in Jan and he wants a free transfer in the summer with a big sign on fee and huge wages due to lack of transfer fee. I think his agent is just generating the interest and profile of him for the summer. I hope I am wrong and that we can pick him up on the cheap now He can still agree the contract now though as he can talk to anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: I think that's exactly what it is, linked some big clubs to drum up interest and drive up the demands before joining a mid table - European challenging team in the summer on wages that are higher than they should be And if the PR/marketing is good enough now then clubs will think they are getting a bargain by paying him a 10m+ sign on fee in June Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: Kaveh Solhekol is dumber then a box of Leeds fans. Ronaldo signed for United 3 days later 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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