Popular Post BOF Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2021 43 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If only a trophy counts as success then whats the point in 16 of the PL clubs? Exactly, and I suspect everyone in this thread knows the points being made. Especially when you consider where we've been as a club for the past 6 seasons and what we've had to rebuild. It has been a very successful spell and will hopefully lead to silverware. But the silverware itself is not the only gauge. You generally don't win anything from the middle of the championship. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 43 minutes ago, BOF said: Exactly, and I suspect everyone in this thread knows the points being made. Especially when you consider where we've been as a club for the past 6 seasons and what we've had to rebuild. It has been a very successful spell and will hopefully lead to silverware. But the silverware itself is not the only gauge. You generally don't win anything from the middle of the championship. The acid test is to ask a Baggie or a Blues whether they are happier with Villa now or the Villa from 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted September 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Peter Griffin said: And no bias there? Look at the basic facts. From midtable in the Championship to midtable in the PL in 3 seasons with the aid of about 350m invested in players. That would be the expected delivery from any manager given the job. If any manager failed to deliver that then they would have been sacked. Objectivity really does help the quality of discussion. Would it? For one thing, you can't really count this season's spending in the "Championship to midtable in 3 seasons" can you, as it didn't contribute to that progression. First he got us promoted with a squad that failed to do so the previous 2 years, having taken over while the club was in midtable. He didn't spend any money (I think he bought Guilbert for the next season). Just a couple of loans in January. What we did then was replace that aging Championship squad with 140m, which is no easy task. It's easy to look at raw numbers and think "250 is a lot", but given the context it really isn't. That first season (more than half of our spending over the 3 years), we were spending about 10m per player. You can't really expect anything more than survival with a team like that, and he delivered on that. Wasn't necessarily an amazing achievement, but hardly the bare minimum expectation. We then spent 100m on 5 players, so approximately 20m per player. Much better, but hardly enough for you to say you expect him to finish midtable with an outlay like that. It's really nothing to write home about. You also have to take into account the teams we have to leapfrog to get into midtable in the first place. Established PL clubs who were spending millions on their squad while we were floundering in the Championship. They had a huge head start on us. We surpassed the likes of Southampton, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle, Watford and Bournemouth in 2 seasons, and I'm backing us to pull ahead of the likes of Everton and Arsenal this season (read those 2 names again). To say such a feat is the expected delivery of the manager to do all of that in 3 seasons is downplaying the difficulty of that achievement significantly. This is not an easy league to have consistent upward mobility in, even if you are spending a decent amount of money. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Realistic aspirations are a top six finish so we can play in Europe again, ideally the Europa League. The other would be to win a trophy. If we qualified for Europe twice in the next three years and won say the FA Cup, that would be a massive success in my opinion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, villalad21 said: Success for me in football terms is trophies, no no. You need to stop watching. Only pain is ahead. Edited September 21, 2021 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: Realistic aspirations are a top six finish so we can play in Europe again, ideally the Europa League. The other would be to win a trophy. If we qualified for Europe twice in the next three years and won say the FA Cup, that would be a massive success in my opinion. That would be amazing. It would be our most successful period for about 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 9 hours ago, CVByrne said: Realistic aspirations are a top six finish so we can play in Europe again, ideally the Europa League. The other would be to win a trophy. If we qualified for Europe twice in the next three years and won say the FA Cup, that would be a massive success in my opinion. MON years was massive success then by your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 14 hours ago, villalad21 said: Success for me in football terms is trophies, no no. So if Villa win the Carabao Cup this season but get relegated, for you that translates as a successful season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, peterw said: So if Villa win the Carabao Cup this season but get relegated, for you that translates as a successful season? What a ridiculous post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 hour ago, peterw said: So if Villa win the Carabao Cup this season but get relegated, for you that translates as a successful season? Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted September 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2021 16 hours ago, BOF said: Exactly, and I suspect everyone in this thread knows the points being made. Especially when you consider where we've been as a club for the past 6 seasons and what we've had to rebuild. It has been a very successful spell and will hopefully lead to silverware. But the silverware itself is not the only gauge. You generally don't win anything from the middle of the championship. A bit off topic but it’s why I didn’t really understand Grealish’s move... it’s very likely he’ll win silverware but is that really success? To me it would feel hollow and of no real value. Whereas us winning promotion, staying up and improving year on year is so much more meaningful to a fan. Oh well, I still don’t understand it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted September 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2021 2 hours ago, peterw said: So if Villa win the Carabao Cup this season but get relegated, for you that translates as a successful season? Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, peterw said: So if Villa win the Carabao Cup this season but get relegated, for you that translates as a successful season? Great question as winning a cup and being relegated has happened. Quote Portsmouth, Middlesbrough, Brighton, Leicester City and Manchester City have been relegated Cup finalists – but Wigan Athletic are the first winners to go down https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/may/15/wigan-athletic-relegated-fa-cup-finalists For me, getting relegated these days could mean being in the wilderness for years or longer and seeing teams like Derby with their issues I’d sacrifice that trophy to not get relegated. Edited September 22, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: What a ridiculous post Oh the irony. He’s only going by your skewed measure of success. Edited September 22, 2021 by Woody1000 Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, nick76 said: Great question as winning a cup and being relegated has happened. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/may/15/wigan-athletic-relegated-fa-cup-finalists For me, getting relegated these days could mean being in the wilderness for years or longer and seeing teams like Derby with their issues I’d sacrifice that trophy to not get relegated. The Noses went down the same season as winning a cup too but think that was the League Cup. They are so tinpot that they still celebrate that success now! Success for me would be challenging for top 4/top 6 every season as that’s where a club of our size should be and allows us to build a great squad. Winning trophies is a luxury and should be an additional aim but it’s difficult with city, Chelsea and United and their clear advantages to everyone else. Most neutrals I talk to think Villa has the potential to be a huge club. Even my dad who’s a spuds fan thinks that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 14 hours ago, Keyblade said: To say such a feat is the expected delivery of the manager to do all of that in 3 seasons is downplaying the difficulty of that achievement significantly I can't see how it is down playing the difficulty. There is no way he would still be in the job if he didn't get us promoted and nor would any other manger be in the job if they failed to get us promoted. I think Dean is doing a very good job at Villa and that is why he is still our head coach. Do you believe that promotion was a requirement to keep his job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, villalad21 said: MON years was massive success then by your logic. It was our most successful period of the last 20 years. But we didn't win a trophy so it wasn't a massive success. As I stated in my post European Competition qualification on a regular basis and winning a trophy = massive success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 40 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: A bit off topic but it’s why I didn’t really understand Grealish’s move... it’s very likely he’ll win silverware but is that really success? To me it would feel hollow and of no real value. Whereas us winning promotion, staying up and improving year on year is so much more meaningful to a fan. Oh well, I still don’t understand it! I think for Grealish it was to improve himself as a footballer by testing himself against the very best in the Champions League and achieving personal honours and winning the top trophies as a team both with City and England. If I were him I'd have done the same, moved on. I think it is good for both Villa and Grealish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Just now, CVByrne said: I think for Grealish it was to improve himself as a footballer by testing himself against the very best in the Champions League and achieving personal honours and winning the top trophies as a team both with City and England. If I were him I'd have done the same, moved on. I think it is good for both Villa and Grealish. 100% agree, it opened loads of door's for both parties involved, would the Villa go back and change it if they could now. I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, CVByrne said: It was our most successful period of the last 20 years. But we didn't win a trophy so it wasn't a massive success. As I stated in my post European Competition qualification on a regular basis and winning a trophy = massive success. But it wasn't a successful period. Just like Spurs under Poch wasn't a successful period or Wolves under Nuno wasn't a successful period. They are good achievements but not success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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