PussEKatt Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Last term we finished 11th.How is it progress if we finish below that ?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejs1111 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) Given our improved squad depth, this team is very capable of challenging for European places this season. Despite the loss of one player, no one can deny our offensive firepower has been improved this offseason overall. Our back 5 was already solid, and adding Young was very a shrewd addition as well. I understand the VT concern with midfield and apparent lack of signings etc etc. However, that does not take into account the fact that existing players improve as well. McGinn has improved (as seen Saturday), Nakamba even (compared to last season), Luiz played well in his first game back with little training, etc etc. Ramsey played very well. I am of the opinion that our midfield will naturally play better than last season given they are a year older, 1 more year experience playing together, 1 more year experience playing in the Premier League, etc. 6th-9th is achievable this season for AVFC. However, I really believe Villa can and will win ONE of the cups this season. We have better depth this season. I think a cup win is how we get to Europe personally. And that is OK with me! Edited August 23, 2021 by ejs1111 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Last term we finished 11th.How is it progress if we finish below that ?! I’d be willing to accept that a Villa side sans Jack Grealish achieving similar to what they did last season is progress of sorts. Bearing in mind it is frequently stated Villa are a one man team, Smith can’t succeed without Grealish, Villa would be relegated without him... If the club finished about the same this time round, it would at least dispel that worry/thought. I’m not going to get all giddy over that, there’s only so much excitement a 12th place finish could bring. But it’s something, it’s not without merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 We have supposed to have spent around 90m replacing Jack.If we cant score more goals with Ings,Watkins,Bailey,AEG and Tarore we really are in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 31 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Last term we finished 11th.How is it progress if we finish below that ?! Agreed. To be progressing we would need to finish 8th or 9th at least this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think spurs will take West Ham’s spot in 6th this season and the top 5 will include the same teams in whatever order. West Ham had a brilliant season but they haven’t done enough to improve the squad adding the europa league into the mix, if Antonio gets another injury they’ll struggle. They also haven’t replaced Lingard but might sort that before the window shuts. Arsenal are a mess, I’d be surprised if they finish the season with Arteta still in charge, we should be finishing above them. Everton have lost Ancelotti, and James Rodriguez is apparently pushing for a move, Benitez is a good manager but I’m not impressed by their signings and think they’ll probably finish 10th-14th this season. Leeds will always win games with how they play but they’ve conceded 7 goals in two games already, I don’t think they’ll be so successful this year. Everyone knows what to expect now when playing them. As for us I think we’re a much stronger squad this season, on paper we’ve replaced Jack as good as we possibly could have and I think we should be pushing for 7th/8th. Worth mentioning if Spurs lose Kane things could be very different for them, but they’ve shown they can beat anyone without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Last term we finished 11th.How is it progress if we finish below that ?! I guess it's if you just class league position as progress. As a club, solidifying ourselves as a midtable team for the first time since MON left could be considered progress. I'd be dissapointed if we finished below 11th but I'd see what factors led to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 For the $$$ the owners are spending,we need to move up a couple of places each year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 Just out of interest (and this probably is really more for the expectations thread)… Villa finished 11th last season, 7 points behind Spurs who finished 7th and qualified for Europe. This season, if Villa finish 9th but we’re 10+ points away from 7th, are we happy with that? Is that progress? Similarly if, say, Villa finish 12th but are somehow only six points off 7th place, would that be considered progress? Or are the above examples too much of a muchness? It’s not a trap, I’m curious if it’s purely the league position and not really to do with points totals, how far off the pace we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said: Just out of interest (and this probably is really more for the expectations thread)… Villa finished 11th last season, 7 points behind Spurs who finished 7th and qualified for Europe. This season, if Villa finish 9th but we’re 10+ points away from 7th, are we happy with that? Is that progress? Similarly if, say, Villa finish 12th but are somehow only six points off 7th place, would that be considered progress? Or are the above examples too much of a muchness? It’s not a trap, I’m curious if it’s purely the league position and not really to do with points totals, how far off the pace we are. I think success would be measured on league position rather than points tally--for me, anyway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Just out of interest (and this probably is really more for the expectations thread)… Villa finished 11th last season, 7 points behind Spurs who finished 7th and qualified for Europe. This season, if Villa finish 9th but we’re 10+ points away from 7th, are we happy with that? Is that progress? Similarly if, say, Villa finish 12th but are somehow only six points off 7th place, would that be considered progress? Or are the above examples too much of a muchness? It’s not a trap, I’m curious if it’s purely the league position and not really to do with points totals, how far off the pace we are. I think you are over complicating it. Anything more than 55 points is progress. Get more then 55 points and the league position will take care of itself. You can’t control what other teams do, only your point tally. Edited August 23, 2021 by Czarnikjak 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Czarnikjak said: I think you are over complicating it. Anything more than 55 points is progress. Get more then 55 points and the league position will take care of itself. You can’t control what other teams do, only your point tally. I’d be fine with circa 55 points and a similar position. Ideally a place or two higher. I’m asking the question to determine what it is people consider “progress”. If Villa somehow picked up more than 55 points but finished 12th (hypothetically), I don’t believe it would be universally agreed that progress had been achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 There's going to come a point where we don't get a higher points total. Do we just panic? MON got a higher points total every season and people wanted him sacked. What if we get 54 pts and finish 11th? As a club with our history, is this not progress? We've been unable to maintain a midtable finish for over a decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: I’d be fine with circa 55 points and a similar position. Ideally a place or two higher. I’m asking the question to determine what it is people consider “progress”. If Villa somehow picked up more than 55 points but finished 12th (hypothetically), I don’t believe it would be universally agreed that progress had been achieved. For me to asses progress I would look at things like points tally, goal difference, possession stats (shows how well we control games) and xG. league position alone can sometimes be a bit misleading. Ie historically 55 points is normally enough for 8-9th place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think we should go hard for the FA Cup. First time winning it since 1957 notwithstanding, it's a direct route into Europe. I think we have the squad for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 8 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: You're right, it is. Unfortunately, we still have a cluster of posters on this forum that think finishing 10th/11th/12th this season is good enough, to which they call it "progress". Anyone who dares mention finishing in the European places gets ridiculed for having "unrealistic expectations". - I think the same folk may still be stuck in the Doug Ellis era way of thinking. Spot on Andy, a little positivity shouldn’t be underestimated or scoffed at. I’m not saying we can win it, but we can certainly make the top 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 hours ago, bobzy said: Yeah, spot on. In the same manner that there will be a cluster of sides who "aim to win the league" or "aim to qualify for the Champions League" or "aim to avoid being relegated". Only 1 team can win the league. Only 4 can qualify for the Champions League. Three teams HAVE to be relegated. Not every team can achieve their "aims" in a season and it doesn't necessarily mean disaster if they do indeed miss out. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 12 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: You're right, it is. Unfortunately, we still have a cluster of posters on this forum that think finishing 10th/11th/12th this season is good enough, to which they call it "progress". Anyone who dares mention finishing in the European places gets ridiculed for having "unrealistic expectations". - I think the same folk may still be stuck in the Doug Ellis era way of thinking. Ultimately selling G***lish has complicated it. I mean if we'd kept him and signed Bailey on top of Buendia then that would've been incredible front 3 behind Watkins (Ings probably wouldn't have turned up) and so think people would've been well within our rights to demand top 8. However lots of uncertainty now particularly with injuries disrupting things. At least we won a game but Brentford will be interesting, another promoted team high on confidence currently and our recent record v them is woeful. Win that and at least we're showing we're capable of putting away bottom half teams at home which is a solid base for getting into top half. Ultimately I'd say there's a difference though in expecting we'll be inconsistant right up to December (when you see the fixture list in September and October) and just accepting a three month winless run as happened last season which usually results in a bottom half finish. I mean it can be avoided this time with sensible management such as DS hitting on a good formation early enough and us getting in a solid DM so we'll see how quickly this season that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 6 hours ago, DCJonah said: I guess it's if you just class league position as progress. As a club, solidifying ourselves as a midtable team for the first time since MON left could be considered progress. I'd be dissapointed if we finished below 11th but I'd see what factors led to it. One thing to throw into the mix.....I actually think 11th was underachievement for us last season. Based on our defensive stats we should've been 8th or 9th and we also had a striker scored 15 in league for first time in ages so certainly met many top half metrics. Also had our best start since MON years in prem to give us a solid base. Ultimately though we still finished behind a newly promoted team (Leeds), Arsenal' worst team in decades and Everton who had some awful results in the run in so while last season it was good it could've been a lot better if we hadn't spent about two months trying to come up with some sort of effective gamplan without you know who. So in that respect finishing below 11th this season would in my mind be actual drop of 3-4 places as with the points total we got last season that would mean top half in pretty much every other season including this one probably. We after all were only a few points off what we got in two of the MON seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 West Ham would struggle this season some people were saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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