Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Anything11]

5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I posted about this with Duran after the game. He either cannot, doesn't understand, or refuses to be a part of this. It could be any of the three.

He'd have been incredible in the 90s or 00s when this was much less important.

Yeah I get the feeling he just isn't convinced of it and therefore doesn't care. 

[CVByrne]

What's so good about the game was Bailey in the press, shows he's adding more to his game. He was also very good defensively helping out Nedeljkovic. 

I was really interested in the Pressing Game we'd add this year, it seems as though it's very targeted and requires a lot on the specific triggers. We are not doing the high press like we see from teams like Arsenal, Newcastle etc. as it is too demanding on the players who need to conserve energy for Europe and PL

[OutByEaster?]

It's interesting that we've already played in two quite distinctly different ways - and I do wonder if we'll play in another way altogether against Leicester, it feels like that one might see a return of the high line.

 

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's interesting that we've already played in two quite distinctly different ways - and I do wonder if we'll play in another way altogether against Leicester, it feels like that one might see a return of the high line.

I think the reason for dropping the high line as our go to was because of it being worked out. So the way to avoid being predictable is to change and evolve. 

I think it will be very interesting against Leicester as we might play a more aggressive press and high line (two go hand in hand) as it's the first time we'll play a weaker side (ie a team Emery feels we can exert more control over). 

[OutByEaster?]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think the reason for dropping the high line as our go to was because of it being worked out. So the way to avoid being predictable is to change and evolve. 

Perhaps. I think it's more of a horses for courses thing, especially in the Arsenal game where Emery surprised them with a whole new pressing plan and defensive shape. I think it's really impressive that we now have a group of players that are smart enough and comfortable enough in working with the manager that they can offer him that flexibility. In terms of being worked out though, it's really good to think that teams in the week they play us have to spend time planning to deal with a whole lot of different potential Villa shapes and methods.

I get the feeling that Emery is enjoying the almost unprecedented control over the football side of things that he has and is relishing the idea of building teams that can play in all of the ways he can imagine - it's rare that a Premier league manager has the security and control to be able to put a long term plan in place about how they want to go about things and how they can develop players tactically.

[The_Steve]

 

 

[CVByrne]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Perhaps. I think it's more of a horses for courses thing, especially in the Arsenal game where Emery surprised them with a whole new pressing plan and defensive shape. I think it's really impressive that we now have a group of players that are smart enough and comfortable enough in working with the manager that they can offer him that flexibility. In terms of being worked out though, it's really good to think that teams in the week they play us have to spend time planning to deal with a whole lot of different potential Villa shapes and methods.

I get the feeling that Emery is enjoying the almost unprecedented control over the football side of things that he has and is relishing the idea of building teams that can play in all of the ways he can imagine - it's rare that a Premier league manager has the security and control to be able to put a long term plan in place about how they want to go about things and how they can develop players tactically.

Yes, that's what I essentially said in my second point. We might see the high line return against weaker opposition if we want to press higher. You can see how well coached the team are and this allows Emery more control to create game plans when he has such a settled first team and new depth learning from an experienced group.

I'd love to know about the build up structure, I'd love a high up shot of our two games so far to see what we are doing. I do believe we are still 3 2 4 1 in possession (despite what Jacob tweeted) with the box midfield and Cash as the RCB. However he has licence to get forward later in the attacking phase as a "crash the box". Onana seems to be covering when this happens. I think this is what we were doing against West Ham

[OutByEaster?]

I think the thing it shows more than anything is that all of us are a good few steps behind Unai Emery, it's a struggle even to keep up with the changes, the tweaks and the shapes he employs - and every time I think I've caught up on something he shows me something else entirely.

He's Mozart, he a genius able to make things that are complicated enough to have fans, journalists, experts and the opposition in knots, simple enough for footballers to understand in a week. I can't think of a manager I've enjoyed watching create and shape a team so much in my whole time watching the club and he makes it look easy - the distances, the shape, the use of the strengths of individuals, the attention to detail, pacing, tempo, I find myself in awe of this moving puzzle and the man at its heart.

Like you @CVByrne I'd love to see a proper professional analysis of what we're doing - I have a feeling even the first two games would fill an hour and I'd watch every minute.

[CVByrne]

Good Article from Jacob here

Aston Villa’s cohort of runners bait opponents into pressing high. This is how they do it - The Athletic (nytimes.com)

Quote

Emery is tweaking a few subtle in-possession principles to embolden Villa’s cohort of runners, with and without the ball.

It may be the next stage of this team’s evolution, built for speed, directness and ensuring an opponent’s press — which started causing issues towards the end of last season — is turned into a key method of attack.

 

[CVByrne]

9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think the thing it shows more than anything is that all of us are a good few steps behind Unai Emery, it's a struggle even to keep up with the changes, the tweaks and the shapes he employs - and every time I think I've caught up on something he shows me something else entirely.

He's Mozart, he a genius able to make things that are complicated enough to have fans, journalists, experts and the opposition in knots, simple enough for footballers to understand in a week. I can't think of a manager I've enjoyed watching create and shape a team so much in my whole time watching the club and he makes it look easy - the distances, the shape, the use of the strengths of individuals, the attention to detail, pacing, tempo, I find myself in awe of this moving puzzle and the man at its heart.

Like you @CVByrne I'd love to see a proper professional analysis of what we're doing - I have a feeling even the first two games would fill an hour and I'd watch every minute.

Oh completely, we're trying to learn from what we are doing after the fact. It's clear he's had this game plan in mind and has been evolving us to it. I think the key is the changes in midfield by adding Onana and Barkley, two players who are big and strong and ball carriers (Barkley in particular is outstanding in take ons while Onana is adding the skill in the right team now.)

It works because we have Tielemans level of passing skill there. This might sound crazy to some but of Luiz or Kamara the right player to sell would have been Kamara. I think the balance of the new midfield needs the more all rounders. 

However we've yet to see us against the weaker opposition, I think Kamara is there as Elite in breaking up opposition counter attacks. So in games where we think we can dominate our threat might be from counters. Kamara was at his best last season when dropping into the back 3 in possession and allowing both fullbacks to attack. I'm sure Emery has more ideas and tweaks in his head to deploy. 

The part that still worries me is injuries, I think if we lose Tielemans we lose the progressive passing needed in midfield. Barkley is the perfect squad player the more I think about the setup as he's the next best passer of the ball and is also next best option to Onana. But the big one is obviously losing Rogers as we don't have anyone like that, we had Diaby who was quick and a ball carrier so we are clearly lacking that now. Rogers is now one of the key players, maybe Ramsey can adapt to the similar role?

[villaglint]

Sure it’s been posted somewhere but I can’t find it.

Can someone post a detailed breakdown of what our squad is (with Enzo going out) how many players we can have in each comp, who is home grown etc. Squad size seems to be more important than PSR right now and I’m totally lost. 

[HalfTimePost]

For those who haven't read the article, Jacob has broken down his analysis of the new build up structure on Threads, with images showing the new structure from.the Arsenal game. It's interesting to see us utilise more width in the FBs (I.e. Konsa at CB, not tucking in from RB, and the 2 CMs sitting deeper to create a box midfield instead.)

https://www.threads.net/@jacob_tanswell_theathletic/post/C_Nfi5bK0K0/?xmt=AQGzk_X3xxlHuOeLPZnz8YycsIe4X6EO4867hL0SwkJExQ

Separately, it took way too long for The Athletic to move Gregg Evans elsewhere and bring Jacob in. He's a breath of fresh air and undoubtedly they'll move him on to a Sky 6 club at some point.

Hopefully that's a while away,  it's nice to have a major journo doing actually journalism on the club and not just a cheap Club-PR-Soundbite and low level transfer rumour generator like we've had for the last 10 years.

Edited August 28 by HalfTimePost

[RichW]

Another good article in The Times worth a read as well as Jacob Tanswell's in the The Athletic.

Quote

Villa pulled the Arsenal forwards and midfielders around so that Rogers would have space to attack. Rogers’s directness, speed and sharpness with the ball at his feet meant he was able to evade pressure and turn what looked like innocuous phases of possession in Villa’s defensive third into promising breaks in just a moment or two.

In addition to using a 2-2 structure throughout the match, Villa’s full backs would drop deep and support, creating a 2-4 or a 4-2 shape at the back as Arsenal pressed.

With those six outfielders and Martínez at the back, Villa had a 7 v 4 match-up in their defensive third, which meant they should have had three spare men.

 

[Tayls]

3 minutes ago, RichW said:

Another good article in The Times worth a read as well as Jacob Tanswell's in the The Athletic.

 

Didn’t work though did it

Nah, it’s a good indication that we are playing a good game now, the attention to detail and the ability to be able to play different tactics to suit the opposition is testament to the man in charge. Looking good! 

[Indigo]

There's been more of a trend towards a back 4 being used again in build-up recently. Brighton were doing it a lot last season, and the likes of Spain and City in recent months have started to use a more traditional 4-4-3 shape to great effect again.

[TomC]

6 hours ago, Indigo said:

There's been more of a trend towards a back 4 being used again in build-up recently. Brighton were doing it a lot last season, and the likes of Spain and City in recent months have started to use a more traditional 4-4-3 shape to great effect again.

We should try a 4-4-3 and see if the ref notices.

 

[Indigo]

2 hours ago, TomC said:

We should try a 4-4-3 and see if the ref notices.

 

Can't believe I've not been recruited by the club yet with my tactical insights. 

[TomC]

49 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Can't believe I've not been recruited by the club yet with my tactical insights. 

The PSR compliance department could use your counting abilities too. 

 

[CVByrne]

17 hours ago, Indigo said:

There's been more of a trend towards a back 4 being used again in build-up recently. Brighton were doing it a lot last season, and the likes of Spain and City in recent months have started to use a more traditional 4-4-3 shape to great effect again.

It;s because you can add you GK if they are a ball player and you make a 5, you outnumber you opposition front 4, then we have 2 CMs who drop deep also. So if the opposition want to press high we are sucking a huge amount of their players deep into our half and leaving 1v1 duels we fancy our chances in with Rogers, McGinn, Bailey and Watkins all up field. 

This allows us to create these direct attacks and gives us a real threat against any side in the league, home or away. 

[gwi1890]

It’s what good managers do they adapt and change systems to suit the players or avoid becoming predictable. I can stress how many times I said “Emery’s plans are not set in stone” when people were banging on about bringing in Juan Foyth “because Emery like a defensive RB”