TomC Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 4 minutes ago, MaVilla said: i never ever thought Watkins was top 4 quality. Dont get me wrong, he is a very good striker, i still think he is a very good striker, but i dont think he is top 4 quality. Not top 4? He got us to the top 4. I think that he's already established that. Not a title winner? That's debatable until he has title winners around him. No, he's not Haaland, but City won most of their titles without even having a true striker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 11 minutes ago, thunderball said: And Watkins. And Bailey. Watkins, i can see an argument for. Bailey, no way imo, top 6 maybe, not top 4 in a million years. Just my opinion ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 1 minute ago, TomC said: Not top 4? He got us to the top 4. I think that he's already established that. Not a title winner? That's debatable until he has title winners around him. No, he's not Haaland, but City won most of their titles without even having a true striker. read my edit and see if you still disagree. Im not sure a "they got us top 4", makes them a top 4 player, on that basis Cash is a top 4 player. I can accept there is a very good argument for Watkins being a top 4 striker, so yeah, im open to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Watkins is absolutely top 4. Arsenal finished second with Kai havertz as there main striker. Watkins is better. Out of the Top 7 Watkins is at worst third best. He is absolutely top 4 quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 1 minute ago, MaVilla said: read my edit and see if you still disagree. Im not sure a "they got us top 4", makes them a top 4 player, on that basis Cash is a top 4 player. I can accept there is a very good argument for Watkins being a top 4 striker, so yeah, im open to the debate. Understood. But let's look at your list of top 4 players, Maatsen and Onana weren't here last year, Tielemans was not a regular starter until the second half of the season when Kamara got injured, and Rogers wasn't here at all until the second half of the season. The second half of the season was the worse of the two halves, so it's hard to say that Tielemans and Rogers made a top 4 difference. That leaves Emi, Konsa, Pau, and Kamara from your list, none of whom I would dispute are top 4 players. But...it's a GK, two CBs, and a defensive midfielder. Look at our GF and GA last year...our GF was more competitive with the rest of the top 4 than our GA. So how can four players on the defensive end be the key difference? Somebody in attack has to be top 4 quality. Where did all those goals come from? Well, 19 of them came from Ollie. So yes, I think he was a major factor in us being top 4 and belongs in the top 4 player list. You could also say Doug was in that list last year. He played an important part in that attack too. And you could make an argument for Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 8 hours ago, MaVilla said: read my edit and see if you still disagree. Im not sure a "they got us top 4", makes them a top 4 player, on that basis Cash is a top 4 player. I can accept there is a very good argument for Watkins being a top 4 striker, so yeah, im open to the debate. I underline the proposal: We were top 4 and Bailey was a significant part of that. Matured greatly under Emery, especially defensively and team work. Carries a threat and is a good outlet, relieves pressure. Not sure I can think of too many right sided forwards outside last seasons top 4 who you would prefer? Like many in the side at the moment, just needs to pick up a little and rediscover his rhythm, most are playing 85%. Edited August 25 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) So what went ‘wrong’ yesterday then? I know we played well, but ultimately we lost, which is why I have phrased it that way. Was it just the not taking chances that we managed to create? Were the two goals conceded both poor from us defensively? Were the subs right? Was it the re-design of the tunnel that made us lose? How are we going to line up going forward, especially if Cash has an injury which could keep him out for a bit? Two games in, what can we say about the midfield? Is it working? Edited August 25 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaVilla Posted August 25 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 25 2 minutes ago, Tayls said: So what went ‘wrong’ yesterday then? I know we played well, but ultimately we lost, which is why I have phrased it that way. Was it just the not taking chances that we managed to create? Were the two goals conceded both poor from us defensively? Were the subs right? Was it the re-design of the tunnel that made us lose? How are we going to line up going forward, especially if Cash has an injury which could keep him out for a bit? Two games in, what can we say about the midfield? Is it working? i think it ultimately came down to the fact that we didnt take our clear chances, but they took theirs. its not normally that simple, but yesterday, i think thats 90-95% of it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 42 minutes ago, Tayls said: So what went ‘wrong’ yesterday then? I know we played well, but ultimately we lost, which is why I have phrased it that way. Was it just the not taking chances that we managed to create? Were the two goals conceded both poor from us defensively? Were the subs right? Was it the re-design of the tunnel that made us lose? How are we going to line up going forward, especially if Cash has an injury which could keep him out for a bit? Two games in, what can we say about the midfield? Is it working? High level games are generally decided by moments and it's small margins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 I think games like yesterday are what will ultimately keep us from ascending to that next level. Don’t get me wrong, as a team we’re great, but we miss maybe just one or two really elite players who, in games of that nature, rise to the occasion and produce something out of nothing. I’m not for one minute condoning the Stevie G recruitment strategy, but I think a Felix or similar finishes chances like that in the big games. I know people will cite the reverse fixture from last season… and we are absolutely capable of winning like that. I just think that we’re usually a team who need to create multiple chances (which we regularly do) to score. We need someone who can finish a sniff of a chance to win us more of those tight games against the big boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 6 hours ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: I think games like yesterday are what will ultimately keep us from ascending to that next level. Don’t get me wrong, as a team we’re great, but we miss maybe just one or two really elite players who, in games of that nature, rise to the occasion and produce something out of nothing. I’m not for one minute condoning the Stevie G recruitment strategy, but I think a Felix or similar finishes chances like that in the big games. I know people will cite the reverse fixture from last season… and we are absolutely capable of winning like that. I just think that we’re usually a team who need to create multiple chances (which we regularly do) to score. We need someone who can finish a sniff of a chance to win us more of those tight games against the big boys. 100% agree, we are 2-3 elite players away from being a genuine top 4 threat, by that i mean a consistent, genuine top 4 threat, not just bouncing between 4th and 8th depending on what Emery can wring out of the squad. Edited August 25 by MaVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 13 minutes ago, MaVilla said: 100% agree, we are 2-3 elite players away from being a genuine top 4 threat, by that i mean a consistent, genuine top 4 threat, not just bouncing between 4th and 8th depending on what Emery can wring out of the squad. Feel the goal of this transfer window was to build depth. With an existing young squad which will mature, the focus of future transfer windows will be to bring in those 2-3 additional elite players. This is likely the vision that was sold to Emi Martinez that convinced him to extend his contract - which he talked about in his interview. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 23 hours ago, MaVilla said: who of our team, do you think is genuine, nailed on top 4 quality right now? for me, Martinez, Maatsen, Pau, Konsa, Onana, Kamara, Tielemans and Rogers currently, so 7 or 8 of our first 11 in my opinion. I think we are 3-4 players from being an actual, genuine top 4 team. Some others may be, but fall just short i think, such as being a top 6 or top 8 player imo, or might be a top 4 player with development, or if they are younger and have time to develop, etc. (note: just because we finished top 4 last season, doesnt mean all our players are top 4 quality, Emery worked miracles with the squad last season to get us top 4). At this current moment in time, I think the following 3 are "top 4 quality": Martinez, Pau, Watkins. I think they easily could start for the 3 teams that finished ahead of us last year (though Watkins over Haaland probably doesn't happen --- but I think those 2 & Isak are the top 3 strikers in the PL currently, and Martinez/Alisson/Ederson/Raya are interchangeable depending on style of play. I would have to see how Onana plays for the season, he is up there but I can't justify him being nailed on top 4 quality after his performances for Everton in the last few years. Rogers is on his way to that, but there is still not enough sample size to make that claim for him. I love Konsa, but he doesn't start for the other top 4 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted August 25 VT Supporter Share Posted August 25 23 hours ago, MaVilla said: Watkins, i can see an argument for. Bailey, no way imo, top 6 maybe, not top 4 in a million years. Just my opinion ofc. You have of course seen last season's table right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 3 minutes ago, romavillan said: You have of course seen last season's table right? Finishing top 4 on one occasion, when Emery managed to wring every ounce out of the squad, beyond what any of us could have hoped for in our wildest dreams, doesnt make all those players top 4 quality. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 The team had 2 days off Sunday+Monday = so good to see Unai doing the same (prob to a lesser degree). I am seeing a lot of what this new team is doing in terms of how Emery wants to play. I think the ball carriers in Onana and Rogers are adding a lot to this team. Onana especially seems to be key as his all round game is better than Kamaras (and yes he's not a Luiz replacement it's clear that Tielemans is that and was signed a year in advance for the purpose). I just worry a bit about depth as we don't have players like Rogers and Onana if they get injured. I feel the next evolution of this team is looking good I just feel we might not have the depth to consistently play the new style. Early days but I love how we play an Emery way and not trying to copy Guardiola or Arteta or Klopp or whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 26 VT Supporter Share Posted August 26 9 hours ago, MaVilla said: Finishing top 4 on one occasion, when Emery managed to wring every ounce out of the squad, beyond what any of us could have hoped for in our wildest dreams, doesnt make all those players top 4 quality. We finished 4th......and was unlucky against a team who finished 2nd last season and now we're not top 4 quality, laughable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 23 hours ago, MaVilla said: Finishing top 4 on one occasion, when Emery managed to wring every ounce out of the squad, beyond what any of us could have hoped for in our wildest dreams, doesnt make all those players top 4 quality. Except the previous season, with an even lesser squad, he had us on a top-4 pace over the partial season he was here. We might have been top 4 that season if he had been around at the start instead of SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything11 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Front 4 press highlighted here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 hours ago, Anything11 said: Front 4 press highlighted here I posted about this with Duran after the game. He either cannot, doesn't understand, or refuses to be a part of this. It could be any of the three. He'd have been incredible in the 90s or 00s when this was much less important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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