MaVilla Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 21 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said: Counter point is we may have spent £140 million but have much have we recouped? very true, then on that point i hope we do have the money to go out and actually improve the starting 11 before the window closes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said: So the question is. Is Maatsen an upgrade? Is Onana an upgrade or is Barkley for Luiz? I want to be but I don't think the team as of today is better than last season. It certainly isn't what I thought we would be able to do having got the so called holy grail that is champions league. Yes we have Buendia back and Mings, I know, but they are not ensured to be available after major injury. Only the results will tells us that. all what we do... is to an outcome.....and that outcome is to win. Whether we defend for our lives...or attack with gay abandon.....winning is what counts. We can all dissect performances to our hearts content, and gain solace in doing so.....winning is what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said: So the question is. Is Maatsen an upgrade? Is Onana an upgrade or is Barkley for Luiz? I want to be but I don't think the team as of today is better than last season. It certainly isn't what I thought we would be able to do having got the so called holy grail that is champions league. Yes we have Buendia back and Mings, I know, but they are not ensured to be available after major injury. The team isn’t better, no. We have lost the experience of Luiz and Diaby who adapted to our system (Luiz more so, obvs). They contributed a lot last season. Onana adds ‘something’ but he won’t give us the creativity we need - which I guess having Buendia back will be useful, and hope we can get Tielemans on form again. I’m guessing the plan with Onana is to have him as the only holding midfielder, because shoe-horning Kamara back in is going to be tricky - unless he replaces Onana. My guess is Kamara will be sold for PSR next summer, as PSG were rumoured to be sniffing around before injury. Pure PSR profit there. Mings will come back and will be 4th of 5th choice. He won’t displace Pau or Konsa, and I am hoping we bring in another CB this month. Bogarde will stick around and develop. LB is one of the weirdest spots for me - Maatsen SHOULD be the starter, but I don’t think he is as good as Digne… I say that without seeing an awful lot of him, but was he really THAT good at Dortmund? I think we are lacking. We have depth now, which is handy. But champions league quality?…Lacking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, MaVilla said: the starting 11 is definitely not better than last season, different for sure, but not better or worse. On paper Maatsen is defo an upgrade at LB, Maatsen was in the CL team of 23/24. Onana is different to Luiz, i dont think you can really gauge better/worse, they just have different strengths/weaknesses. Im not concerend yet, still plenty of the window left to go, but we have spent 140m ish and we havent actually improved the starting 11, if thats still the case by the end of the window, it wont be good. Will have to wait and see i guess, maybe we will strengthen towards the end of the window, ie: the big boys take their shares (players they want), and then we see what is left over to scrap over players wise. It's too early to be concerned....but some optics have not changed. imo We still look uncomfortable with the press, and at the same time play some neat football, when teams stand off us. That concerns me....and I simply cannot deny it.....whether it improves as the season progresses, I am rather hoping it does. I still think Onana is a plus, but I cannot ignore centre Backs looking vulnerable on the ball in the press......that for me is unacceptable. Centre backs for me, need to dominate proceedings, not succumb to over zealous forwards......passive centre backs for me, need to go back to the drawing board....I am simply not condoning it. We need to get back to winning, to avoid the forensic observations.....if we lose, its inevitable, the microscope will come out. PS I will put my head above the parapet and say.....if we concede 61 goals or thereabouts, next season, despite the goals for column, we will be in difficulty, by our own standards. Edited August 12 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeypuzzle Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Watkins Duran Ramsey McGinn Bailey Buendia Rogers Philogene Tielemans Kamara Barkley Onana Maatsen Torres Konsa Cash Digne Mings Carlos Nedeljkovic Martinez Gauci Olsen, Hause, Moreno, Dendoncker, Barrenechea, Iling Junior, Archer Assuming that Carlos to Fulham happens and is replaced by Geertruida from Feynoord, who else actually needs replacing? That squad looks good! Yes there are a couple of injuries to come back, but that is why we have a squad, not just a first eleven. If we bring in any extras, people will have to go, but who? I'd be sorry to lose any of them in reality. Geertruida could easily be the last transfer. Where would Lo Celso fit, for example? Who is he replacing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Monsieur Hazdazler Posted August 12 Popular Post Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, Tayls said: The team isn’t better, no. We have lost the experience of Luiz and Diaby who adapted to our system (Luiz more so, obvs). They contributed a lot last season. Onana adds ‘something’ but he won’t give us the creativity we need - which I guess having Buendia back will be useful, and hope we can get Tielemans on form again. I’m guessing the plan with Onana is to have him as the only holding midfielder, because shoe-horning Kamara back in is going to be tricky - unless he replaces Onana. My guess is Kamara will be sold for PSR next summer, as PSG were rumoured to be sniffing around before injury. Pure PSR profit there. Mings will come back and will be 4th of 5th choice. He won’t displace Pau or Konsa, and I am hoping we bring in another CB this month. Bogarde will stick around and develop. LB is one of the weirdest spots for me - Maatsen SHOULD be the starter, but I don’t think he is as good as Digne… I say that without seeing an awful lot of him, but was he really THAT good at Dortmund? I think we are lacking. We have depth now, which is handy. But champions league quality?…Lacking. We won't really know until later on this season being realistic. Onana reprofiles our midfield and adds a lot of unique qualities we don't have, equally Luiz is a big loss. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume an adaptation period, but Onana has huge potential and could be a transformational signing if he kicks on (in my opinion at least), only time will tell. Same with Maatsen - he's young and has huge quality, but perhaps needs time to adapt into the system - I'd expect him to take over at some stage before Christmas, but also respect to Digne who has been a great pro and proven himself to be a valuable player for Emery - he won't be easy to shift, but if they can share minutes that's fine too and keeps them both fresh. You'd have to say long term again he's a fantastic signing, but it might just take a bit of time for that to bear fruit. I think this window has been 50% trying to develop the squad and 50% reprofiling the squad both in terms of player characteristics and age/wage. If we can continue that by shedding Carlos and adding Geertruida that's another good step and to be honest, after some of the Gerrard era signings that's much needed. Carlos, Coutinho, Dendoncker and even Digne have all proven to be money poorly spent (I appreciate Digne will split opinion there, he's obviously been a good player for us but he's also been an expensive one). I feel like we're still recovering from that period from a financial point of view. I feel like the idea of 'winning the window' is so complicated for Villa this season. Trying to improve a team that finished 4th, while shifting certain players and reprofiling the squad, and also adding depth to prepare for the Champions League campaign is extremely nuanced. I can totally accept some teething issues over the first half of the season (within reason of course) if it means the club is set up for continued improvement over the next 2-5 years. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tomsky_11 Posted August 13 Popular Post Share Posted August 13 Just looking at some stats on starting players in the 23-24 season, the positions they started in, and our team record when each player started: Also some data on starting centre-back pairings: And double pivot pairings: 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur Hazdazler Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 @tomsky_11 I think the Pau Torres thread had some conversation around PPG this might be relevant there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 7 hours ago, Monsieur Hazdazler said: We won't really know until later on this season being realistic. Onana reprofiles our midfield and adds a lot of unique qualities we don't have, equally Luiz is a big loss. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume an adaptation period, but Onana has huge potential and could be a transformational signing if he kicks on (in my opinion at least), only time will tell. Same with Maatsen - he's young and has huge quality, but perhaps needs time to adapt into the system - I'd expect him to take over at some stage before Christmas, but also respect to Digne who has been a great pro and proven himself to be a valuable player for Emery - he won't be easy to shift, but if they can share minutes that's fine too and keeps them both fresh. You'd have to say long term again he's a fantastic signing, but it might just take a bit of time for that to bear fruit. I think this window has been 50% trying to develop the squad and 50% reprofiling the squad both in terms of player characteristics and age/wage. If we can continue that by shedding Carlos and adding Geertruida that's another good step and to be honest, after some of the Gerrard era signings that's much needed. Carlos, Coutinho, Dendoncker and even Digne have all proven to be money poorly spent (I appreciate Digne will split opinion there, he's obviously been a good player for us but he's also been an expensive one). I feel like we're still recovering from that period from a financial point of view. I feel like the idea of 'winning the window' is so complicated for Villa this season. Trying to improve a team that finished 4th, while shifting certain players and reprofiling the squad, and also adding depth to prepare for the Champions League campaign is extremely nuanced. I can totally accept some teething issues over the first half of the season (within reason of course) if it means the club is set up for continued improvement over the next 2-5 years. Good balanced post mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dog Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 18 hours ago, tomsky_11 said: Just looking at some stats on starting players in the 23-24 season, the positions they started in, and our team record when each player started: Also some data on starting centre-back pairings: And double pivot pairings: Is that your own work mate or something you've got off the interwebs? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 39 minutes ago, T-Dog said: Is that your own work mate or something you've got off the interwebs? Ta Own work. Was obviously very bored last night 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAngel Posted August 13 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13 20 hours ago, tomsky_11 said: And double pivot pairings: Wow, it's great to see it written down like this. Looks to me like Kamara was/is a far bigger loss than Dougie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur Hazdazler Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, JPAngel said: Wow, it's great to see it written down like this. Looks to me like Kamara was/is a far bigger loss than Dougie. I think more than anything it showed we didn't have a great natural replacement for Kamara when he was out, but when Dougie was out McGinn or Tielemans could step in and provide a similar skillset. You'd anticipate this year Onana is a big addition in terms of covering Kamara, and Enzo could be useful in that role also 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 11 minutes ago, JPAngel said: Wow, it's great to see it written down like this. Looks to me like Kamara was/is a far bigger loss than Dougie. Yep, well we did have a 100% winning record when Dougie didn't start last season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 7 minutes ago, Monsieur Hazdazler said: I think more than anything it showed we didn't have a great natural replacement for Kamara when he was out, but when Dougie was out McGinn or Tielemans could step in and provide a similar skillset. You'd anticipate this year Onana is a big addition in terms of covering Kamara, and Enzo could be useful in that role also Enzo's stat profile from last season looks pretty similar to Kamara and I've been impressed with him both defensively and in possession in what I've seen of preseason. Will be interesting to see what midfield combos we end up using this season. Imagine a four of Onana, Enzo/Kamara, Tielemans, McGinn could be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsieur Hazdazler Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 4 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Enzo's stat profile from last season looks pretty similar to Kamara and I've been impressed with him both defensively and in possession in what I've seen of preseason. Will be interesting to see what midfield combos we end up using this season. Imagine a four of Onana, Enzo/Kamara, Tielemans, McGinn could be interesting... Yeah I've enjoyed Enzo in pre season - strikes me as that kind of composed ball retainer, smart on the ball etc. I feel like his minutes in the later friendlies were impacted a bit by us needing to put Dendoncker in the shop window! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dog Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, tomsky_11 said: Own work. Was obviously very bored last night DM me mate if you're into this kind of thing, would be interested in how you've compiled it all, where you got the data from and that, and would be happy to help with similar stuff in the future. Very impressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 50 minutes ago, Monsieur Hazdazler said: Yeah I've enjoyed Enzo in pre season - strikes me as that kind of composed ball retainer, smart on the ball etc. I feel like his minutes in the later friendlies were impacted a bit by us needing to put Dendoncker in the shop window! Yep, I know it's only Walsall, but Enzo in that game reminded me a little in possession of Luiz the prior year when he looked like he'd gone up another level. I don't think Enzo is anything like the creative player Dougie is, but he can certainly move the ball well from deep, looks good in the air and isn't shy of a tackle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeypuzzle Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 I know it's a "behind closed doors" friendly we are playing/played today, but does anyone have any information about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 On 12/08/2024 at 20:30, tomsky_11 said: Just looking at some stats on starting players in the 23-24 season, the positions they started in, and our team record when each player started: Also some data on starting centre-back pairings: And double pivot pairings: I am not surprised to see Pau and Kamara at the top. Much more so Moreno and Zaniolo, but then, the sample size for them is small. They may just have been lucky to start the same games as more important players. Also interesting see Cash up there. The most important factor of all seems to be the Konsa/Pau pairing. At 2.5 PPG, that's 95 points over 38 matches. If they could have kept up that rate over a full season, we would have finished ahead of City and won the title. It's going to be hard for Mings to break in with that success rate, but then, we have many matches to play and he will get his turn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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