Tomaszk Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 4 hours ago, Tayls said: Wolves beat Leipzig 3-0 - who we seemingly struggled to even get a shot off against… 10 men or not, we were still awful. Oh what! Were Luiz and Diaby playing for Wolves or something? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 34 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Oh what! Were Luiz and Diaby playing for Wolves or something? Odd… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 On 01/08/2024 at 10:44, Made In Aston said: Clearly still a lot to work on but I'm confident it will come together. However I wouldn't be surprised if we start the season slowly and gradually improve as the team gels. yeah, I think it will be a slowish start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 On 01/08/2024 at 16:14, MaVilla said: The thing is, we have spent something in the region of £140m, but at least on face value, only 2 of our signings are nailed on starters (could be proved wrong ofc). Onana and Maatsen are definite starters (probably), so 2 definite starters added, but we lost two high profile players also in Luiz and Diaby, so its probably a net neutral as of right now.. The others, Dobbin, Barkley, Barrenchea, Iling-Jr, Jaden, Archer, are either development players, squad players, to be sold or loaned, or maybe to push for a first 11 place if they can show their quality, but not nailed on as of right now. We prob arent flush with cash, and might need outgoings to spend further, but we certainly need at least 1 first team player, maybe two, to actually have improved the starting 11. As opposed to are we better?, I would suggest we are different.....so it's difficult to quantify just yet. Sometimes they say, you have to take 2 steps back to take a step forward....This might be the case. It might be fair to say, the squad is stronger, even if the first 11 isn't, just yet. We all know, Unai's tutoring can be intense, and maybe, some of the boys, haven't quite grasped it just yet...who knows. slowly, slowly catch a monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 On 03/08/2024 at 00:24, thunderball said: If we sign Felix, the combination of a skilful, creative, attack minded #10 coupled with a tall defensive minded midfielder in Onana, on paper is more effective than Luiz and Diaby. If we don’t sign Felix, Baena or Goncalves could both fill the role more effectively than Luiz. We also need a towering CB. Then we are much much stronger, will evolve our style and hopefully concede fewer. Where this falls down is that Onana isn't a defensive midfielder and felix isn't an 8 (which is effectively what luiz was). Luiz was a tempo last season and dictated so much in what we did with the ball. We've taken him out and left a gaping hole. Felix will be more of a Diaby replacement, and we still need to see what barkley can offer us but he's no way an improvement on Luiz, so if we only have him/Onana to try and improve that midfield area then we are really going to have a square peg for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 6 hours ago, peterw said: Where this falls down is that Onana isn't a defensive midfielder and felix isn't an 8 (which is effectively what luiz was). Luiz was a tempo last season and dictated so much in what we did with the ball. We've taken him out and left a gaping hole. Felix will be more of a Diaby replacement, and we still need to see what barkley can offer us but he's no way an improvement on Luiz, so if we only have him/Onana to try and improve that midfield area then we are really going to have a square peg for the season. But Diaby rarely started. I see Onana/Kamara/Tielemans/Berkeley rotating singley or in a pairing with a new #10 coming in: Felix/Baena/Goncalves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 10 hours ago, thunderball said: But Diaby rarely started. I see Onana/Kamara/Tielemans/Berkeley rotating singley or in a pairing with a new #10 coming in: Felix/Baena/Goncalves. Diaby started 36 games for us last season, 25 in the league and played in every single game we had last season bar one of the qualifiers against Hibs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) I still have an innate unease with our defending.....Pre season, is no place to judge, but I don't think it's any place to dismiss either. We simply have to tighten up imo....both through the middle and cut out the regularity of crosses, in to our box. Maybe Emi playing sweeper, might help, but our back line is getting breached with the ease of a summer breeze....any enthusiastic runner, will see an opportunity in our play, to exploit....its simply undoing us. I am just hoping as the season opens proper, our 3 big players return, my fears will be unfounded. Edited August 6 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 21 hours ago, TRO said: yeah, I think it will be a slowish start. i was thinking about this listening to Talk sport going on about West Ham this morning. Its the typical game we all know what will happen...West Ham at home...their fans will be well up for it...new players...new manager....we not quite up to speed. Never been one for using friendlies in the summer as to this is where we will be. I agree, we will be slow starter and new players coming in...I get the oh no Luiz and Diarby arent here....to some extent....they were good...and did their bit...but they were definitely not the be all and end all!!! My concern at this time is we seem to be mentally carrying on from the last 10 games from last season...there hasnt really been that spark showing whats to come. It will come...Unai will get us there...i just think it will take a few games...some new players may hit the ground...Im looking forward to seeing Enzo...i think he will surprise some...Onana too...the squad is better now...the bench is stronger...that killed us with all the injuries last season. We will win some...loose some and I wouldn't be surprised if after 10 games we 8th - 10th but improving each week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 5 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said: i was thinking about this listening to Talk sport going on about West Ham this morning. Its the typical game we all know what will happen...West Ham at home...their fans will be well up for it...new players...new manager....we not quite up to speed. Never been one for using friendlies in the summer as to this is where we will be. I agree, we will be slow starter and new players coming in...I get the oh no Luiz and Diarby arent here....to some extent....they were good...and did their bit...but they were definitely not the be all and end all!!! My concern at this time is we seem to be mentally carrying on from the last 10 games from last season...there hasnt really been that spark showing whats to come. It will come...Unai will get us there...i just think it will take a few games...some new players may hit the ground...Im looking forward to seeing Enzo...i think he will surprise some...Onana too...the squad is better now...the bench is stronger...that killed us with all the injuries last season. We will win some...loose some and I wouldn't be surprised if after 10 games we 8th - 10th but improving each week. My sentiments too. I think the 3 players missing, will play a big part in my concerns, but right now, I am not convinced in the way we defend, and thats all over the pitch Maybe it's too early to get touch tight, and smother opponents, but if we stand off, we will get done. I accept, it's too early to form hard and fast conclusions.....but so far, I need some convincing that the end of last seasons form will change. I am like you, I don't think losing Luiz and Diaby is the issue, in terms of defending, sure we may miss a bit of guile and creativity, but I am hoping the club fix that bit. No, it's the conceding of basic goals, that concern me. I will say this, sure we need to address the issue of creativity, left behind, by the 2 big players.....but if we don't reduce those 61 goals against from last season, no amount of creativity, will compensate, and we will win nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) 19 hours ago, peterw said: Where this falls down is that Onana isn't a defensive midfielder and felix isn't an 8 (which is effectively what luiz was). Luiz was a tempo last season and dictated so much in what we did with the ball. We've taken him out and left a gaping hole. Felix will be more of a Diaby replacement, and we still need to see what barkley can offer us but he's no way an improvement on Luiz, so if we only have him/Onana to try and improve that midfield area then we are really going to have a square peg for the season. I think we can sometimes get obsessed, with what players can and can't do.....their individual attributes, put together, form a team. We defend together, and attack together and that has to be the basis, for what we do....so all the players have to do a bit of both.....one for all, all for one. This may sound a bit patronising, but it's not meant to be, but..........when we have the ball, players have to move,with intelligence and nous to give options and passes have to be concise and snappy, no dithering.........when we are without the ball, we have to be positionally organised, and close down threats, BEFORE they happen....we have to snuff out and nullify the oppositions enthusiasm and fill them with doubt.....Marshalling is all well and good, and at times, is prudent, but too much standing off, builds confidence in opponents....we have to get at players, better than we do....That requires collective action, not the odd individual renegade, having a go...that's not organised defending, its token gestures. We simply cannot play a brand of football, that fills the opposition with confidence.....That is tantamount to suicide. Edited August 6 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: Diaby started 36 games for us last season, 25 in the league and played in every single game we had last season bar one of the qualifiers against Hibs. *towards the end, and most frequently subbed. We lacked a true #10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think we can sometimes get obsessed, with what players can and can't do.....their individual attributes, put together, form a team. We defend together, and attack together and that has to be the basis, for what we do....so all the players have to do a bit of both.....one for all, all for one. This may sound a bit patronising, but it's not meant to be, but..........when we have the ball, players have to move,with intelligence and nous to give options and passes have to be concise and snappy, no dithering.........when we are without the ball, we have to be positionally organised, and close down threats, BEFORE they happen....we have to snuff out and nullify the oppositions enthusiasm and fill them with doubt.....Marshalling is all well and good, and at times, is prudent, but too much standing off, builds confidence in opponents....we have to get at players, better than we do....That requires collective action, not the odd individual renegade, having a go...that's not organised defending, its token gestures. We simply cannot play a brand of football, that fills the opposition with confidence.....That is tantamount to suicide. I agree in the large part and one of the things I dislike is the idea that midfielders before Makelele didn't go up and come back. Not in a harum scarum way but could Mortimer come in to our team now and do a competent job in place of Kamara - of course he could, as probably could Des Bremner. Liverpool in the later 70s only conceded something like 16 goals all season over 42 games, they didn't seem to lack a midfielder that could get forward and do the defensive job. Its part of modern parlance and extra coverage given to the defence as modern football tactics dictates. It will change and formations and thinking will shift once again, and maybe the concept of a 'defensive' midfielder will change and the focus will be on attacking from the middle and squeezing the play wide in defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders129 Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 We’ll 100% be evolving tactically from last season. Really interested to see what Unai does. The high line might drop a bit deeper maybe and also interesting to see if we maintain the slow tempo/minimal pressing or up it. Teams started to figure us out last season and Unai is too smart not to make changes. Who knows, we may do an Arsenal and go back to being a 1-0 team/hard to beat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 I don't think that'll be too far from the mark. We will have lost that bit of craft that Luiz gave us so we may decide to set-up to be hard to beat first and then use our pace on the counter - which we did see at times last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Be interesting to see who will handle the build up now that we lack both Kamara & Luiz. Martinez to Pau and then? Onana is not that player and I doubt Enzo is, yet at least. Guess it's Tielemans or are we thinking that Barkley is good enough to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 1 minute ago, sne said: Be interesting to see who will handle the build up now that we lack both Kamara & Luiz. Martinez to Pau and then? Onana is not that player and I doubt Enzo is, yet at least. Guess it's Tielemans or are we thinking that Barkley is good enough to start? I think you'll be surprised with Onana, he receives the ball from the centre backs way more than people realise. Belgium at the Euros a good example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Just now, PaulMcGrath_5 said: I think you'll be surprised with Onana, he receives the ball from the centre backs way more than people realise. Belgium at the Euros a good example. He'll certainly be tasked with it here. He's not bad at it, but it's a 180 from the style he played at Everton so the adjustment will take some time getting used to. Much as we have good players there is no de Bryune here that always comes out with the ball. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 9 hours ago, TRO said: I still have an innate unease with our defending.....Pre season, is no place to judge, but I don't think it's any place to dismiss either. Our goals against was pretty competitive the first half of last year, if not quite top-3 quality. It fell off in the second half, probably a combination of losing Kamara and teams figuring out our high line. My questions on the defensive end are: 1. Can Onana fill the Kamara gap until he comes back? 2. Do we have enough depth? That depends on whether Diego stays, whether Mings is back to his best, and whether we sign anyone else. 3. Will the high line continue to work? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Watkins / Duran NEW / Buendia JJ / Rogers / Iling Junior Tielemans / Barkley Onana / Kamara* / Barrenechea Bailey / McGinn / Philogene Maatsen / Digne Pau / Mings* Konsa / Carlos Cash / Nedeljkovic Martinez / Olsen / Gauci Moving on would be Archer / Dendonker / Moreno McGinn, Rogers, Tielemans can all play as the 10 also. This squad has the depth we need, I am still a little worried about CB and do feel we need another attacker, hopefully Felix. We could really do with Mings and Kamara being back and up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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