Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Hobsons Choice]

9 minutes ago, duke313 said:

The bulk of the transfer budget in the summer should be spent on a DM, with Nakamba serving as backup/rotation.

Speaking of which, when the hell is he back. We need a bit of a lift. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I am not suggesting the players are taking the piss......but I am suggesting, they can't muster, the necessary intensity, urgency, Drive etc to give opposition teams a game on a consistent basis...they are pasive and flat, and lack conviction......surely you can see that?

I agree its better, but marginal.....and while we are managing to possibly achieve mid table....its all so fragile....while the progress is real, its so slow, and expensive, 

In terms of the attitude/character of this side..... we are way short of any notion of Europe, and the thought of it, with our perfomances in mind, is irritating.

If the progress under Smith was as convincing as you portray, the club in its wisdom, would never have parted company.

The opportunity that these fabulous owners represent, is unprecedented.....we would be wise not to waste that opportunity, by investing in players, we don't need, and buying players we do need.

I think we have a huge summer to get it right, and right all the wrongs, we have clearly missed out on.

 

The bit in bold is nonsense. The club parted with him because they didn't believe he could take us to the next level. 

That doesn't change what he did previously. The progress from midtable championship to midtable prem was what he achieved. 

[The_Steve]

I would not be shocked if Trez, AEG, Traore, Hourihane, Davis, Targett, Luiz and McGinn are gone come the summer. Not sure what Guilbert’s contract situation is either but he won’t be around. Questions remain about the striking options. 
 

With the vote for 5 subs I get the feeling we are going to see more game time for the youth - especially with Bidace, Barry, and Archer returning from loans (assuming they don’t go on subsequent loans). We’ve still got Carney and Timmy for midfield options, plus Kane at right back. 
 

A holding midfielder has to be the priority. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

51 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

We’ve still got Carney and Timmy for midfield options, plus Kane at right back. 

Pleased we’ve signed him but surprised he’s now dropping that deep.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, duke313 said:

Replace all 3 CMs with 3 DMs, might get a few 0-0s at least.

Thats the danger, going from one extreme to the other.......when balance is the key.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

I would not be shocked if Trez, AEG, Traore, Hourihane, Davis, Targett, Luiz and McGinn are gone come the summer. Not sure what Guilbert’s contract situation is either but he won’t be around. Questions remain about the striking options. 
 

With the vote for 5 subs I get the feeling we are going to see more game time for the youth - especially with Bidace, Barry, and Archer returning from loans (assuming they don’t go on subsequent loans). We’ve still got Carney and Timmy for midfield options, plus Kane at right back. 
 

A holding midfielder has to be the priority. 

Yep, that has been my hope for some time now, so I keep my fingers crossed.

as for outgoings......we have to have interested parties to buy, so that is to be established.

[Zatman]

19 hours ago, duke313 said:

Even if he did maraud forward, can't be any more out of position than Douglas Luiz

Another 2 goals conceded without him on the pitch but yeah Luiz to blame. What do all these have in common this season?

Watford 4 goals conceded 

Wolves 5 goals conceded 

West Ham 5 goals conceded 

Answer: Luiz not on the pitch

[duke313]

7 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Another 2 goals conceded without him on the pitch but yeah Luiz to blame. What do all these have in common this season?

Watford 4 goals conceded 

Wolves 5 goals conceded 

West Ham 5 goals conceded 

Answer: Luiz not on the pitch

Except he did play against Watford, he did play against Wolves and he did play against West Ham.

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Except he did play against Watford, he did play against Wolves and he did play against West Ham.

He said on the pitch. Assume he was subbed off when we conceded

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Except he did play against Watford, he did play against Wolves and he did play against West Ham.

He played in 3 yet we conceded 1 goal from the 15 conceded in them 6 games with him off the pitch

[CVByrne]

We all know the midfield balance isn't there. JJ appears to be the box to box player, McGinn meant to be the shuffler and Luiz the destroyer CDM

All three of them are good players but the balance is totally wrong. Luiz and McGinn are not suited to the roles they are doing. While I think overall we've too many players that aren't suited to the formation we play

[duke313]

17 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He played in 3 yet we conceded 1 goal from the 15 conceded in them 6 games with him off the pitch

Fair enough.  But we have conceded many a goal in other matches with him on the pitch.  Arsenal, Newcastle, 3 against Leeds, United, Brentford, 3 against Chelsea.  

[barry'sboots]

15 hours ago, The_Steve said:

I would not be shocked if Trez, AEG, Traore, Hourihane, Davis, Targett, Luiz and McGinn are gone come the summer. Not sure what Guilbert’s contract situation is either but he won’t be around. Questions remain about the striking options. 
 

With the vote for 5 subs I get the feeling we are going to see more game time for the youth - especially with Bidace, Barry, and Archer returning from loans (assuming they don’t go on subsequent loans). We’ve still got Carney and Timmy for midfield options, plus Kane at right back. 
 

A holding midfielder has to be the priority. 

I can't see us selling SJM/I really hope we don't.  We know what he can do operating as a proper 8/10 (we have seen it in the past and we see it every international break for the Scots) and that's where he needs to be next season with a proper DCM behind him.  

------------------------------ Bissouma or Phillips/Nakamba ---------------------------

--------------- SJM/Sanson ---------------------------------- Ramsey/Chukie ----------

I am assuming that Dougie is off in the summer.

[CVByrne]

I do hope once the midfield 3 are sorted out Gerrard changes the team set up to 4 3 3 / 4 2 3 1 / 4 3 1 2  - have those three as the formations

[Zatman]

16 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Fair enough.  But we have conceded many a goal in other matches with him on the pitch.  Arsenal, Newcastle, 3 against Leeds, United, Brentford, 3 against Chelsea.  

Maybe but over 33% of our goals conceded this season was in 6 games when our much criticised defensive midfielder wasn't on the pitch. 

He hasn't been on the pitch for 16 of our 42 goals conceded this season 

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I do hope once the midfield 3 are sorted out Gerrard changes the team set up to 4 3 3 / 4 2 3 1 / 4 3 1 2  - have those three as the formations

He seems reluctant to change it up for whatever reason, even though a lot of the time it isn't working he persists with it.  Our squad is tailor made for 4231 at the minute, which is the de facto best formation in football.

[CVByrne]

Just now, duke313 said:

He seems reluctant to change it up for whatever reason, even though a lot of the time it isn't working he persists with it.  Our squad is tailor made for 4231 at the minute, which is the de facto best formation in football.

I just feel the abandonment of the wide forwards to have the full backs pushed high up the field. That puts defensive pressure on the two 8s. 

If we had wide forwards we could push our 8s on and not push the full backs on so much. JJ/McGinn are more dangerous in attacking situations than Digne/Cash and vice versa in defensive situations. 

If we have that proper CDM I hope he will tweak the way the fullbacks play so one tucks into midfield if the other goes forward or if the 8 on their side goes forward. 

[duke313]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Maybe but over 33% of our goals conceded this season was in 6 games when our much criticised defensive midfielder wasn't on the pitch. 

He hasn't been on the pitch for 16 of our 42 goals conceded this season 

So we have conceded 38% of our goals when he isn't on the pitch and conceded 62% when he is on the pitch.  Interesting, not sure it re-enforces your point.

[Zatman]

Just now, duke313 said:

So we have conceded 38% of our goals when he isn't on the pitch and conceded 62% when he is on the pitch.  Interesting, not sure it re-enforces your point.

Of course it does. We have conceded 26 goals in a total of over 23 games he has been involved

We would have the 4th/5th best defence in the league if this continued instead of the 11th best

[og1874]

Am I the only one who's given at least fleeting thought to how we might look if we went back to the exact same system we had when Jack was with us, but with Coutinho in Jack's role? Not saying we should, but I've found myself, on occasion, wondering how that would work out