DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) This is a the still image vs Zrinjski for our 94th minute winner before Traore lays it off to Cash but you can see we create a 3vs3 with Cash attacking and Youri supporting high and to the right as the 3rd man. The picture is cutoff for sizing but we have 4 attackers in the box so it is essentially a 2-2-6. We need to steadily recreate more of these overloads against low blocks earlier in the match. Edited January 10 by DJBOB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Against Sheffield, we needed to recreate these instances more frequently. We get a 4vs 4 because Cash carries the ball forward to create the 6th attacker on the line. When the ball is laid off to McGinn we have a 4v4 that we should exploit immediately. McGinn does make the pass into Watkins here which eventually falls to Diaby who should shoot but too frequently we don't create these scenarios enough. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 We often find ourselves in this scenario which is hard to create attacking. Cash or just offscreen, McGinn needs to come in and support them to create a rondo and outnumber them with the overload. Bailey here tosses a back post cross that is the eventual handball but it's more hopeful that it is incisive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 17 minutes ago, DJBOB said: This is a the still image vs Zrinjski for our 94th minute winner before Traore lays it off to Cash but you can see we create a 3vs3 with Cash attacking and Youri supporting high and to the right as the 3rd man. The picture is cutoff for sizing but we have 4 attackers in the box so it is essentially a 2-2-6. We need to steadily recreate more of these overloads against low blocks earlier in the match. Bertie can beat a low block in his sleep though 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Bertie can beat a low block in his sleep though A bit like Anwar and penalties - if only we could keep substitute Bertie in the final third to specifically play against low blocks! Edited January 10 by DJBOB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: I don’t think the oppositions we’re facing are inane enough to take the bait and stretch themselves through width. It’s a fairly standard counter to the low block, and opposition managers will be completely ready for it. And they have been ready. If they don’t, they leave themselves open for crosses. They either go to the ball and leave space behind them, or they stay in their shape and let crosses come in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 18 minutes ago, duke313 said: If they don’t, they leave themselves open for crosses. They either go to the ball and leave space behind them, or they stay in their shape and let crosses come in. One of our few weaknesses and @TRO's biggest worry - a team sorely lacking in height! City, pre-Haaland, and currently Arsenal face the same problem though Arsenal have scored a lot of set pieces. Cross all you like - we're going to have to be very fortunate to win anything from a deep cross with our attacking lineup. Strangely enough, Liverpool make it work, but they have some of the best crossers of the ball and Jurgen doesn't mind just throwing bodies at it and getting countered. We have had some success in getting Moreno free at the far post but that's about it for our crosses unless Digne is allowed to cross 10 times per match as he was earlier in the season. Edited January 10 by DJBOB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 29 minutes ago, DJBOB said: One of our few weaknesses and @TRO's biggest worry - a team sorely lacking in height! City, pre-Haaland, and currently Arsenal face the same problem though Arsenal have scored a lot of set pieces. Cross all you like - we're going to have to be very fortunate to win anything from a deep cross with our attacking lineup. Strangely enough, Liverpool make it work, but they have some of the best crossers of the ball and Jurgen doesn't mind just throwing bodies at it and getting countered. We have had some success in getting Moreno free at the far post but that's about it for our crosses unless Digne is allowed to cross 10 times per match as he was earlier in the season. We scored a late equaliser against Sheff Utd low block from a cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 7 minutes ago, duke313 said: We scored a late equaliser against Sheff Utd low block from a cross Dougie also assisted Watkins from a similar area against Legia at home. Think we should definitely exploit that more. Use JJ/Moreno drag teams back, cut it back to Luiz and use his delivery at the top of the box to cross/shoot. That should be a natural pattern we need to exploit as JJ and Moreno can combine to really push their line back. This is not dissimilar from what City have done for years with KDB waiting at the top of the box and currently Rodri replicating that role. Henderson made half a living waiting for the cut back at the top of the box and cross at the back post to the point where it was a meme by their fans. Edited January 10 by DJBOB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 minutes ago, DJBOB said: Dougie also assisted Watkins from a similar area against Legia at home. Think we should definitely exploit that more. Use JJ/Moreno drag teams back, cut it back to Luiz and use his delivery at the top of the box to cross/shoot. That should be a natural pattern we need to exploit as JJ and Moreno can combine to really push their line back. This is not dissimilar from what City have done for years with KDB waiting at the top of the box and currently Rodri replicating that role. Henderson made half a living waiting for the cut back at the top of the box and cross at the back post to the point where it was a meme by their fans. Can’t break oppositions low block? No problem, stick Duran and Zaniolo up front and whip in about 30 crosses for the last 15 mins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted January 10 VT Supporter Share Posted January 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, DJBOB said: In our same set up, you would have at most 3 Villa players on the right side but frequently only 2 vs 4 - some combination of Diaby/Bailey or Bailey/Cash or McGinn/Cash. You can see the disadvantage we put ourselves in in favor of keeping more players that can defend a counter with our 3-2 rest defense. This is what I mean in terms of creating a pattern of play either through adding more attackers or creating a side overload. Brilliant explanation and graphic. Wow. Thank you. It's amazing how the outlines of these patterns emerge from the maelstrom of play with a little bit of study. Definitely reminiscent of ballet or synchronised swimming or something. Your mention of the rondo prompted me to dig into that. I saw this excellent quote: Quote Dutch player and coach Johan Cruyff, who implemented the rondo at Barcelona, described the drill: Everything that goes on in a match, except shooting, you can do in a rondo. That "rondo" or box or trapezoid is a powerful mechanism, that's for sure. You articulated what I have been sort of scratching my head about and had no words for when I watch VIlla and Diaby and Zanny -- or Anthony on Man United or even, on the left, Kai Havertz at Chelsea. Sometimes, the players just look stranded, trying always to use one-on-one skills rather than teamplay to work the ball towards shooting angles. Anthony is the worst, but in all cases, you've got inadequate loading on one side. Edited January 10 by Marka Ragnos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 43 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: Brilliant explanation and graphic. Wow. Thank you. It's amazing how the outlines of these patterns emerge from the maelstrom of play with a little bit of study. Definitely reminiscent of ballet or synchronised swimming or something. Your mention of the rondo prompted me to dig into that. I saw this excellent quote: That "rondo" or box or trapezoid is a powerful mechanism, that's for sure. You articulated what I have been sort of scratching my head about and had no words for when I watch VIlla and Diaby and Zanny -- or Anthony on Man United or even, on the left, Kai Havertz at Chelsea. Sometimes, the players just look stranded, trying always to use one-on-one skills rather than teamplay to work the ball towards shooting angles. Anthony is the worst, but in all cases, you've got inadequate loading on one side. I get what you are saying but i also think that Villa on the whole are a teamwork team rather than a moments of magic team. There has to be some individualism at times . And it always seems to come from the right rather than the left where we normally find the lesser spotted Diaby and Zaniolo. And where Bailey is having a load of success as he seems to have mastered the individual/team ethic now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 54 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: I get what you are saying but i also think that Villa on the whole are a teamwork team rather than a moments of magic team. There has to be some individualism at times . And it always seems to come from the right rather than the left where we normally find the lesser spotted Diaby and Zaniolo. And where Bailey is having a load of success as he seems to have mastered the individual/team ethic now. I think you can have both. Grealish didn’t require a pattern of play to win games by himself on the left. Pep bought Doku specifically for his 1v1 abilities. Same with Saka for Arsenal. These 1v1 winners are prized players. But in lieu of that, I think the team as a whole need to work on these patterns because we don’t have elite 1v1 winners except for Bailey when he’s really on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 We have not yet developed a 2nd gear to counter the low block. Need to pick up the pace of ball movement to get the opponent out of their shell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 6 hours ago, nepal_villan said: We have not yet developed a 2nd gear to counter the low block. Need to pick up the pace of ball movement to get the opponent out of their shell. There was a good 442 video about why Chelsea suck specifically against Boro. Playing the horse shoe pass it around the low block but off the ball players not making runs to draw the defender and create overload, and how useless Caicedo was not looking to receive the ball. As soon as Dougie came on he was playing through the lines. We did fine. Watching the game 0-0 Boro had 10 men behind the ball in the final 3rd. They could've done that to any team and may have ended up 0-0. I don't think we could've done much else. Got them on a set piece breakdown. Job done Edited January 11 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 52 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: There was a good 442 video about why Chelsea suck specifically against Boro. Playing the horse shoe pass it around the low block but off the ball players not making runs to draw the defender and create overload, and how useless Caicedo was not looking to receive the ball. As soon as Dougie came on he was playing through the lines. We did fine. Watching the game 0-0 Boro had 10 men behind the ball in the final 3rd. They could've done that to any team and may have ended up 0-0. I don't think we could've done much else. Got them on a set piece breakdown. Job done I always thought Caicedo was a terrific player at Brighton. Just hasn’t happened for him at Chelsea. On paper, him and Fernandez are a strong pairing but for whatever reason, doesn’t seem great. Toxic club I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 16 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I always thought Caicedo was a terrific player at Brighton. Just hasn’t happened for him at Chelsea. On paper, him and Fernandez are a strong pairing but for whatever reason, doesn’t seem great. Toxic club I suppose. They had clips of him at Brighton being Kamaraesque then clips in Boro game just standing around the whole game. I'll be gutted if we don't beat Chelsea in the cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 14 hours ago, DJBOB said: One of our few weaknesses and @TRO's biggest worry - a team sorely lacking in height! City, pre-Haaland, and currently Arsenal face the same problem though Arsenal have scored a lot of set pieces. Cross all you like - we're going to have to be very fortunate to win anything from a deep cross with our attacking lineup. Strangely enough, Liverpool make it work, but they have some of the best crossers of the ball and Jurgen doesn't mind just throwing bodies at it and getting countered. We have had some success in getting Moreno free at the far post but that's about it for our crosses unless Digne is allowed to cross 10 times per match as he was earlier in the season. I agree. I have to say, the height thing does concern me, but only for strategic positions.....not for the whole team. You are right about city....Pep did say pre haaland, the team was generally too small, his words not mine.....This league requires physicality, and plays long and high balls, we have to be " Prepared" for that. Headers win games....c17% of all goals scored, are headers.....its a pretty decent club to be in, despite the unfashionable element of it. and finally, the back post....If I just stood there, I'd get 15 goals a season......for the savvy ones know, its a breeding ground for goals......could be nifty to defend it well, too, from the opposite perspective. Edited January 11 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 50 minutes ago, TRO said: and finally, the back post....If I just stood there, I'd get 15 goals a season You wonder why people don't just do that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 11 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11 The back post is a good place to score goals? Damn, I'm glad that savvy knowledge was shared with us unwashed here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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