Team shape, tactics and personnel

[MattVillaPortsmouth]

Just now, KAZZAM said:

We need new ideas for away from and possibly a different formation. 

Cuz it just doesn't work. 

Or just play with a bit of pace, we are sooooooo slow, when we move it we look good.  Getting Digne/Cash into god positions is a massive waste of time, neither has any end product.

[MaVilla]

Digne is a one trick pony/one dimensional, will be great to have Moreno back fit.

I think we also miss Ramsey on the left side alongside Moreno.

We need a new right back.

we lack a bit of creativity, but not sure thats the be all and end all right now, i think having Moreno and Ramsey back fit would make a decent difference for us.

[Reivax_Villa]

When we have players like Ramsey, Moreno and Buendia back our away form will pick up 

[villa4europe]

9 offsides

Forest couldn't cope with it, that's the one positive from the match, worked an absolute treat

Its heart in the mouth stuff that gets the commentators and the match thread excited but we shouldn't abandon it

[DJBOB]

One of those days. Reminiscent of a few matches last year. 
 
One of the things we still lack, especially in the first half, are consistent 1v1 winners. We’re a very effective side in a lot of ways but when the opposing team is engaged and they have a lead, we don’t have someone that can consistently beat their man. 
 
It’s one of the few areas we’re still weak. Think of the teams above and around us and they have those profiles. Arsenal has Saka (and has noticeably struggled since he’s had injuries) and Martinelli. City have a plethora of 1v1 winners but you see how Doku did so well for them. Spurs have Son and Maddison. Brighton has Mitoma. Newcastle has Gordon and Barnes. 
 
We’ll be okay but we’ve seen against Wolves and Forest and Everton in the cup that still have some work to do against these low blocks. 
 
 

[villan95]

2 clean sheets from 11 matches so far isn't great 

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

9 offsides

Forest couldn't cope with it, that's the one positive from the match, worked an absolute treat

Its heart in the mouth stuff that gets the commentators and the match thread excited but we shouldn't abandon it

At least 2 of them weren’t offside, though.

We were getting done by the ball over the top all game long and did NOTHING about it. Poor, IMO. 

[Hank Scorpio]

Wrong thread.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Hank Scorpio

[GeordieVillan]

Unai is resisting going back to the low block that he started with to turnaround out away from last season. I think he sees it as backwards step to do that, so we are sticking with the high line.

What we missed today, in the first half especially, was pressure on the ball. It was similar to what happened against Newcastle and Liverpool, it felt like Forest had ages to pick a pass over the top and in behind because we didn’t put enough pressure on them (or perhaps they were very effective at beating our press).

I actually think we played better today than we did against Wolves, especially second half. Goals dictate the narrative though.

[Pinebro]

How do you play effectively away from home?

[It's Your Round]

46 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

How do you play effectively away from home?

I don’t, I’m happily married 

 

As for Unai, it’s just another puzzle to solve. I do wonder whether he’s still implementing the current style and accepts it might not work all the time, but would rather embed it fully before starting to train a new approach. I don’t know really. 

[DJBOB]

I think we will continually have this problem (committed low blocks and not taking an early lead) until we get different profiles in the team. Diaby has allowed us to play with a greater transitional threat and Pau allows us to play out of the back and hold possession when we're in front more.

But we still lack 1v1 winners out wide to break down low blocks. We become over reliant on crosses from Digne and Cash or whoever is on right wing when we lack the physicality to really take advantage of it. Even when we do cut it back to the penalty or the top of the box, it is very congested to try and get a shot off without it being blocked.

Again one of those days and the pattern has been the same each time. 

We should've put Palace away but then they score through a series of mishaps as a result of our high press (Pau being done and Emi slipping) and only a Duran rocket saved us.

Everton in the cup score on another calamity defensive spell (Olsen rocket into Dougie and no one clearing).

Forest score early on a goal Aina will probably never be able to replicate.

It's not as if we're giving up loads of chances most of the time, but outside of a worldie from Duran against Palace - we have struggled (and Emery teams typically struggle) when we go behind first because of the composition of the team. The sacrifices he asks of the wide midfielders (to be able to play moving infield and also be able to track back and defend as a fullback at times) sometimes pays the price with our lack of creativity from wide.

[duke313]

32 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

I think we will continually have this problem (committed low blocks and not taking an early lead) until we get different profiles in the team. Diaby has allowed us to play with a greater transitional threat and Pau allows us to play out of the back and hold possession when we're in front more.

But we still lack 1v1 winners out wide to break down low blocks. We become over reliant on crosses from Digne and Cash or whoever is on right wing when we lack the physicality to really take advantage of it. Even when we do cut it back to the penalty or the top of the box, it is very congested to try and get a shot off without it being blocked.

Again one of those days and the pattern has been the same each time. 

We should've put Palace away but then they score through a series of mishaps as a result of our high press (Pau being done and Emi slipping) and only a Duran rocket saved us.

Everton in the cup score on another calamity defensive spell (Olsen rocket into Dougie and no one clearing).

Forest score early on a goal Aina will probably never be able to replicate.

It's not as if we're giving up loads of chances most of the time, but outside of a worldie from Duran against Palace - we have struggled (and Emery teams typically struggle) when we go behind first because of the composition of the team. The sacrifices he asks of the wide midfielders (to be able to play moving infield and also be able to track back and defend as a fullback at times) sometimes pays the price with our lack of creativity from wide.

I think we broke down their low block fine yesterday, we had 13 shots in total but only 3 on target.  We created chances, just couldn't hit the target.    

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

I think we broke down their low block fine yesterday, we had 13 shots in total but only 3 on target.  We created chances, just couldn't hit the target.    

Yeah I don't think we even played that poorly.

I think if Zanioloa at 30', Bailey at 58', Watkins header and multiple Digne crosses within their own box go our way, then it's not viewed nearly as negatively.

We played much worse vs Wolves and got a point of that.

[TRO]

I still have a nagging concern of our general view as a club to defending.....I don't see that many prospects in the Academy, standing out for their defensive skills, maybe Josh Feeney, my point is, AV does not seem a breeding ground for players to develop defensively, where is our up and comimg John Terry?....when was the last time, we developed our own home grown, first team defender.....Gary Cahill ? he's nearly 40

Even when we sign defenders, they are revered for their attacking prowess and not so much their defending.....Only Tyrone Mings breaks that mould.

I understand and appreciate, that the game has changed in this respect....but players with defensive qualities are still in evidence in the top teams...they are still highly appreciated with many teams in the Prem...even the pied piper pep has Dias, Akanji, Ake and stones...Arsenal develop Saliba

I feel grossly frustrated, when I see some of the goals we concede, they are simply, too easy.....conceding is inevitable, the best teams do it, but in the main, they make you work for it......we seem to put a bow ribbon, around some of our conceded goals.

I hope Unai, can change some of this, because it has a knock on effect mentally on some other aspects of our game.

We really do need to be, " Harder to play against" particularly away from home.

 

[TRO]

On 05/11/2023 at 16:02, MaVilla said:

Digne is a one trick pony/one dimensional, will be great to have Moreno back fit.

I think we also miss Ramsey on the left side alongside Moreno.

We need a new right back.

we lack a bit of creativity, but not sure thats the be all and end all right now, i think having Moreno and Ramsey back fit would make a decent difference for us.

Digne in some quarters, is deemed our current best player, depending how we all read the game....possibly the most likely to create anything, worthwhile....even though he is a full back, I think.

but lets look at the facts/ stats....and not the "eye test" (match day play).......Many neutrals would think 26 goals scored in 11 league games, where is the Creativity issue?, the squad oozes with creativity and offensive prowess.We are amongst the best in the League.

We have conceded 16 league goals, 1 more than Everton in 16th place and 1 more than Forest in 13th only Brighton in the top 10 has conceded more.

If we have any aspirations to progress this club/team....we have to stop conceding such sloppy goals......Goals against, really is a major performance indicator to consider when appraising a football team.....maybe its not fashionable, but it is still a hallmark of a good team.

I don't think most fans are critical of their teams defending, when well crafted goals are scored against them....many of ours are not.....they are simply gifts.

We have to stop it, else it will derail us.

[DJBOB]

47 minutes ago, TRO said:

Digne in some quarters, is deemed our current best player, depending how we all read the game....possibly the most likely to create anything, worthwhile....even though he is a full back, I think.

but lets look at the facts/ stats....and not the "eye test" (match day play).......Many neutrals would think 26 goals scored in 11 league games, where is the Creativity issue?, the squad oozes with creativity and offensive prowess.We are amongst the best in the League.

We have conceded 16 league goals, 1 more than Everton in 16th place and 1 more than Forest in 13th only Brighton in the top 10 has conceded more.

If we have any aspirations to progress this club/team....we have to stop conceding such sloppy goals......Goals against, really is a major performance indicator to consider when appraising a football team.....maybe its not fashionable, but it is still a hallmark of a good team.

I don't think most fans are critical of their teams defending, when well crafted goals are scored against them....many of ours are not.....they are simply gifts.

We have to stop it, else it will derail us.

The 8 goals given up between Liverpool and Newcastle skew this goals allowed somewhat. Not that we shouldn't count it, but it definitely skews it - as does our Brighton scoreline but we have proven ourselves more than capable of putting 3+ goals on many clubs.

xG and xGA, while imperfect, says we are 5th in the league at scoring and 8th in the league at defending.

That's about where we are right now in position and we will need to improve on attacking low blocks and being more effective on set piece/corner routines as well as defending much much better when we outnumber the opponent.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, DJBOB said:

The 8 goals given up between Liverpool and Newcastle skew this goals allowed somewhat. Not that we shouldn't count it, but it definitely skews it - as does our Brighton scoreline but we have proven ourselves more than capable of putting 3+ goals on many clubs.

xG and xGA, while imperfect, says we are 5th in the league at scoring and 8th in the league at defending.

That's about where we are right now in position and we will need to improve on attacking low blocks and being more effective on set piece/corner routines as well as defending much much better when we outnumber the opponent.

I accept all that....and I am well aware that the 2 games of 8 goals distort the picture, to quote cumulative and that at seasons end they will proportionately wash out....(and our Home record of 4 conceded is exemplary, so something is right in our defending)

but, what doesn't wash out, in the nature of the goals conceded and the ease and manner of which we conceded them....my point is that needs to be addressed at some point, if we have aspirations to improve....and I am pretty sure we do.

I also accept the WIP, and the view that we are far from the finished article, but merely pointing out alternative views to winning games, we can't always out score opponents, as much as we would like to.

[DJBOB]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I accept all that....and I am well aware that the 2 games of 8 goals distort the picture, to quote cumulative and that at seasons end they will proportionately wash out....(and our Home record of 4 conceded is exemplary, so something is right in our defending)

but, what doesn't wash out, in the nature of the goals conceded and the ease and manner of which we conceded them....my point is that needs to be addressed at some point, if we have aspirations to improve....and I am pretty sure we do.

I also accept the WIP, and the view that we are far from the finished article, but merely pointing out alternative views to winning games, we can't always out score opponents, as much as we would like to.

His teams have traditionally been better scorers than defenders - so thinking that he will suddenly change his philosophy is probably just going to drive you mad.

Not that he can't change but during his time in Villareal - his teams were ranked in xG - 4th and 2nd but in xGA - 8th and 9th.

At Arsenal, they were 4th in xG but 11th in xGA.

He will set up his teams to attack but won't be immune to playing a 6-2-2 when we're leading.

But the first goal is critical as he has shown to be elite in holding leads but below the levels needed when giving up the first goal.

 

 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

His teams have traditionally been better scorers than defenders - so thinking that he will suddenly change his philosophy is probably just going to drive you mad.

Not that he can't change but during his time in Villareal - his teams were ranked in xG - 4th and 2nd but in xGA - 8th and 9th.

At Arsenal, they were 4th in xG but 11th in xGA.

He will set up his teams to attack but won't be immune to playing a 6-2-2 when we're leading.

But the first goal is critical as he has shown to be elite in holding leads but below the levels needed when giving up the first goal.

 

 

Our goal scoring is great, don't want him to change that.

I read somewhere, that, they said they were surprised by Unai's style of Offence, with Aston Villa, and that they thought he was a more of a defensive manager in is approach.....not complaining about, our exciting football, just looking at ways of controlling certain opposition more.

Maybe we don't have to change our style, maybe we just need to get some players, who are better at defending, and better intelligence/discipline in positioning.

Whatever, is required....conceding the goals like we do, in terms of ease, and as often, away from home..... will come back and bite us.

Ps Maybe we should have gone 6-2-2 in the first 2 heavy defeats...its not as if they were anything but very hard encounters....we just played in to the hands of their firepower.

Edited November 9, 2023 by TRO