Villaphan04 Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 I know this could be controversial, but I'd start Bailey & Diaby together in most home matches. Their link up play has really shown imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) Some thoughts, mostly personnel - but some tactically. 1) JJ must come back. Zaniolo did an admirable job but he played better on the right for Italy and has played the majority of his career on the right or center. I find our personnel oddly unbalanced. We have 4 left footed players that almost exclusively play better on the right (Bailey, Traore, Zaniolo, McGinn). Diaby also prefers the right but seems more two footed and played really well today once he switched to the left. And then we only have right footed player on the left now that Buendia is injured. Perhaps Unai though Tielemans would be able to play that role better. Perhaps he thought McGinn would play that role better. But right now, we are short of a 8/10 performance there until JJ comes back. On top of that, we have two attacking left backs so we can never really play with Digne or Moreno forming the back 3. By default, we need a winger type to provide width on the right while the LB provides width on the left. Before Mings injury, we saw Unai tinkering with Pau at LB so that they could play a right footed winger (Philogene and Coutinho) on the left. You can see the knock on effects Mings and Buendia's injury had with the rest of the squad. 2) Can McGinn and Diaby play at the same time once JJ is fully fit? I've thought about this for a few weeks now and struggle to see McGinn as a regular starter once JJ is fit. Of course - with the amount of games we play - McGinn will feature but UE clearly likes Diaby as one of the top two as a counter attack threat and has not played him out wide so far. Since we are unbalanced for the reasons in point #1, that means once everyone is fit, the RM position, by default, would have to usually provide the width like Bailey did when he came on. That is not a role McGinn will fill in well. Again - we will play a lot of games, but I wouldn't be surprised to see McGinn dropped 3) Could see UE gritting his teeth and then deciding to go 442 once the chips were down. Diaby and Bailey on the wings, Watkins and Duran up top. Palace had given up all pretense and was now allowing a ton of space wide but trusted themselves to stop our crosses. Enter Jhon Jader Duran. Unai mentioned playing with more heart than head in the second half and the 'break glass' tactics near the end showed that. Not pretty, but once it became evident that we were not going to play through Palace, we started trying to get behind them down the sides. Edited September 16, 2023 by DJBOB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Found this to be quite interesting from yesterday when watching the game and it checks out when comparing with the average positions. Villa - like many teams now - take shape in a kind of 3-2-5 when in possession, that often happens by having one "full back" bomb forward and the other tuck in as another centre back (Konsa at right back, Torres playing left back in pre-season etc). With the line-up yesterday, it does feel like the latter isn't natural to neither Cash nor Digne, so we actually had Kamara drop into that pseudo-right back position, McGinn tucked into his midfield spot and Cash created the width on that side of the pitch instead. Felt like it had its pros and cons as McGinn wasn't as effective as he has been recently, and Cash was often in 1v1 positions when he's not really one for dribbling and beating his man, but given the options available I think it was the smartest way to have the formation take shape. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich192 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 Yeah I noticed that, too. It would work well if we had a Moreno or Digne on the right, but Cash isn’t the right profile of player there. I do feel it hampered McGinn’s game, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 There is no system fits all......every set up has an upside and a downside......The trick is finding that winning solution. but it doesn't stop there either......players have to be giving good performances in the role, they are deployed to, which in turn, creates a team performance. Every team, is working out ways to capitalise on the attributes, their players have, and at the same time, stop ours. Many, many factors come in to play, to win a game...Thats why a diversity of player attributes are essential to a well balanced squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 On 17/09/2023 at 08:41, Indigo said: Villa - like many teams now - take shape in a kind of 3-2-5 when in possession, that often happens by having one "full back" bomb forward and the other tuck in as another centre back (Konsa at right back, Torres playing left back in pre-season etc). With the line-up yesterday, it does feel like the latter isn't natural to neither Cash nor Digne, so we actually had Kamara drop into that pseudo-right back position, McGinn tucked into his midfield spot and Cash created the width on that side of the pitch instead. This was probably the most interesting tactical tweak yesterday. The funny thing is that SG tried something similar for a few matches (Kamara tucked in between the CBs instead of to the right side while both fullbacks went forward). It didn't work then, but SG is not Unai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, TomC said: This was probably the most interesting tactical tweak yesterday. The funny thing is that SG tried something similar for a few matches (Kamara tucked in between the CBs instead of to the right side while both fullbacks went forward). It didn't work then, but SG is not Unai. Oddly enough - I thought the game vs Palace reminded me a lot of Gerrard's tactics. Mainly that our fullbacks are not elite enough to be able to win their 1v1s on the outside. Digne will always cross early - and while it eventually paid off - it took 87 minutes to do so. And Cash can work as a back post arrival or working in combos but he's never going to beat the fullback 1v1. Even had McGinn back in center mid! Bailey when he came on made a difference in driving their fullback backwards and creating some space for the rest of the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Saturday wasn't too bad a performance. If we'd finished our first half chances, we run out the 2/3/4-1 winners we deserved to be. The team panicked a bit after conceding though. Lost shape, dismissed plans, tried to do things frantically and got it wrong. We got even worse after the match winners came on IMO. Even though he wasn't great at all, McGinn usually keeps us moving the ball, I thought we really missed him. Tielemans played like he has every game. Duran brought chaos, which was more positive than nothing, but he still didn't really look like making anything happen. Fortunately they are both excellent players and provided two moments of magic to win it for us. I think the team will get a good grilling in the debrief for that loss of focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Watkins might not score 20+ goals a season, but I have a feeling we’ll cope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyVillans Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 When everyone is fit I think I would like to see the following line-up Martinez Konsa Carlos Torres Moreno McGinn Kamara Luiz Ramsey Diaby Watkins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 1 hour ago, TheMightyVillans said: When everyone is fit I think I would like to see the following line-up Martinez Konsa Carlos Torres Moreno McGinn Kamara Luiz Ramsey Diaby Watkins I would agree this would be our strongest set up right now, without compromising on our quality going forward. Perhaps utilising Cash a bit more for home games though and move Konsa over in place of Carlos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 13 hours ago, TheMightyVillans said: When everyone is fit I think I would like to see the following line-up Martinez Konsa Carlos Torres Moreno McGinn Kamara Luiz Ramsey Diaby Watkins No Mings? Or are you excluding long-term injuries (Mings and Buendia)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyVillans Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 6 hours ago, TomC said: No Mings? Or are you excluding long-term injuries (Mings and Buendia)? Yep excluding them because of injuries. If they were fit then probably have mings in for carlos. probably wouldnt start buendia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Tonight reminded me a lot of watching United yesterday. A midfield overrun and lacking pace+athleticism and a defense too easily undone in transition. Cascading weak links causing multiple transition issues. Tactically: Kamara/Tielemans were either too high when we lost the ball with no one screening the back 3 with absolutely shocking effort to get back after they were through When Kamara/Tielemans were in the correct position, Warsaw played the ball over the top and out wide - taking advantage of Digne pushed up and Chambers being awful Building out of the back - Warsaw pushed the ball to Chambers side and jumped on him like a pack of wolves, killing most of our progression when the game was even Personnel: Chambers and Lenglet are not good 1v1 defenders in transition. This is well known. Tonight reminded me a lot of the Brentford game last year with the change that Chambers and Lenglet are major downgrades in space. Yes - there's an element of luck in 2/3 goals but they targeted Villa's weakness well and exploited it ruthlessly Tielemans - the complaint about him was that he wasn't physical and didn't run. Complete lack of winning duels - slow to press - slow to recover. A combination of a lack of pace/strength/desire McGinn - has avoided the flack but a really underwhelming game from him as well and has been rightly substituted the last few matches. Cannot get turned forward and unable to drag the team up the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, DJBOB said: Tonight reminded me a lot of watching United yesterday. A midfield overrun and lacking pace+athleticism and a defense too easily undone in transition. Cascading weak links causing multiple transition issues. Tactically: Kamara/Tielemans were either too high when we lost the ball with no one screening the back 3 with absolutely shocking effort to get back after they were through When Kamara/Tielemans were in the correct position, Warsaw played the ball over the top and out wide - taking advantage of Digne pushed up and Chambers being awful Building out of the back - Warsaw pushed the ball to Chambers side and jumped on him like a pack of wolves, killing most of our progression when the game was even Personnel: Chambers and Lenglet are not good 1v1 defenders in transition. This is well known. Tonight reminded me a lot of the Brentford game last year with the change that Chambers and Lenglet are major downgrades in space. Yes - there's an element of luck in 2/3 goals but they targeted Villa's weakness well and exploited it ruthlessly Tielemans - the complaint about him was that he wasn't physical and didn't run. Complete lack of winning duels - slow to press - slow to recover. A combination of a lack of pace/strength/desire McGinn - has avoided the flack but a really underwhelming game from him as well and has been rightly substituted the last few matches. Cannot get turned forward and unable to drag the team up the pitch It reminds me of where we were 2nd season with Deano, either an attacking force or utterly all at sea and nothing in between. I crave the occasional draw, I don't want a season of playing like Barcelona one week and a pub team the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 One thing is for sure keep playing the way we are and we are going to see loads of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Aside from Hibs and Burnley away we haven't really played well this season IMO. Hopefully it's just a case of players settling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, VillanousOne said: It reminds me of where we were 2nd season with Deano, either an attacking force or utterly all at sea and nothing in between. I crave the occasional draw, I don't want a season of playing like Barcelona one week and a pub team the next. We've been victim of early first goals against us a lot and I think a combination of the atmosphere+rotation caused a series of failures across the back 5 when we had the ball (Chambers/Konsa/Lenglet/Kamara/Tielemans). Warsaw were faster and more athletic than our midfield and defenders - end of. We can make some tactical tweaks and play more conservatively, but it doesn't really matter if the opponent knows they just get on you. Overran all along the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 The premier league is more important apparently Despite the fact we won't get into the champions league So who cares, try and win the confernece full strength and get into europa next season. We can't play our best team every game so we have to use the rest of the squad. The issue is if they are not good enough like Chambers then results like today happens. So naturally we will get knocked out of most cups quite early I think if we have to rely on these reserves who are not good enough in some cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) Goals #2 and #3 are just poor all around and encapsulates our problems right now without Mings. He was anticipatory and aggressive in winning his duels in the midfield, snuffing out attacks before they got started. Pau, Lenglet, Chambers over the last few games are just not winning these. Goal #2 took 13 seconds and 4 passes to get from their corner flag into the net. 13 seconds! Villa press high - Lenglet is nowhere close to his marker for the first header, Kamara is ball watching with no anticipation and misses the outlet pass wide. Lenglet then closes down with Digne which causes Konsa to cover the middle instead of the back post. Amateur hour. Goal #3 took 11 seconds from the top of their box and just 2 passes to score. Chambers on an absolute jog and not coming close to a challenge. You can say all you want tactically, but Unai should be tearing them apart for their lack of bottle. Edited September 21, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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