Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Hobsons Choice]

I think maybe terms of team development (although I appreciate financially that it was vital due to parachute payments) we got promoted a year too soon.

Dean did wonders in a half season the promotion year, but it kind of feels like we've been playing catch up ever since. I can't say that I've felt at the end of any of the summer transfer windows, for one reason or another, that the squad is where we need it to be for the campaign. We've felt half baked for years to me.

Maybe it was the DM, the manager, or something more fundamental, but I've not felt the situation has been fully under control since we've been back in the prem. We get beat by those below us, and (sometimes) get points from those above. 

[Hobsons Choice]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It's a different discussion but I disagree with the notion that players have been taking the piss over the last few years. 

Under Smith, these players have put us back to the level we hadn't been at for over a decade. They've allowed us to now build and look at challenging for Europe. 

Now all of a sudden we're turning on them all. Yes we need improvements but let's not rewrite history. 

Agreed.

I still maintain, though, that if we get the midfield sorted (1 maybe 2 signings of the right type), we will have a cracking team. 

[Hobsons Choice]

27 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

For me, the midfield is in need of a massive fix - they don’t sufficiently cover the full backs (thus negating their ability to get forward) which has a knock on effect for both formations. It’s clear how much we’ve missed Nakamba. That style of midfielder works so well in tandem with the hybrid midfielders we have. It’s a shame Sanson has had so many injuries. Teams cut through the midfield like butter far too often and we often leave our full backs too exposed. 

I agree. It's clearly not just injuries with Sanson, though. For whatever reason Stevie just doesn't fancy him. 

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It's a different discussion but I disagree with the notion that players have been taking the piss over the last few years. 

Under Smith, these players have put us back to the level we hadn't been at for over a decade. They've allowed us to now build and look at challenging for Europe. 

Now all of a sudden we're turning on them all. Yes we need improvements but let's not rewrite history. 

I am not suggesting the players are taking the piss......but I am suggesting, they can't muster, the necessary intensity, urgency, Drive etc to give opposition teams a game on a consistent basis...they are pasive and flat, and lack conviction......surely you can see that?

I agree its better, but marginal.....and while we are managing to possibly achieve mid table....its all so fragile....while the progress is real, its so slow, and expensive, 

In terms of the attitude/character of this side..... we are way short of any notion of Europe, and the thought of it, with our perfomances in mind, is irritating.

If the progress under Smith was as convincing as you portray, the club in its wisdom, would never have parted company.

The opportunity that these fabulous owners represent, is unprecedented.....we would be wise not to waste that opportunity, by investing in players, we don't need, and buying players we do need.

I think we have a huge summer to get it right, and right all the wrongs, we have clearly missed out on.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, og1874 said:

Yup. We don't have a single midfielder in the entire squad where you imagine an opposition midfielder looking at the team sheet and thinking "Christ, I don't fancy that today"

Instead it's almost definitely a case of the opposition manager saying "Let them have the ball in midfield, put a bit of pressure on, and they'll do something stupid. If they don't just let them pass it around, hit a sloppy one, and go straight through them"

No other tactics are needed against us beyond that IMO

Can you explain to me.......why so many can't see your points?

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Agreed.

I still maintain, though, that if we get the midfield sorted (1 maybe 2 signings of the right type), we will have a cracking team. 

I agree fwiw.

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I agree fwiw.

So one player will fix us?

Smith must have built quite the squad full of character.

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

For me, the midfield is in need of a massive fix - they don’t sufficiently cover the full backs (thus negating their ability to get forward) which has a knock on effect for both formations. It’s clear how much we’ve missed Nakamba. That style of midfielder works so well in tandem with the hybrid midfielders we have. It’s a shame Sanson has had so many injuries. Teams cut through the midfield like butter far too often and we often leave our full backs too exposed. 

What we are really saying, but don't want to say it, is .....McGinn and Luiz are suspect, in the role they are being asked to play.....even JJ has a had a few dippers, but his age and development, bails him out to a degree....but all put together, you are right, midfield needs a fix.

We have to be more honest with ourselves, with this midfield.

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

So one player will fix us?

Smith must have built quite the squad full of character.

One player, with the right qualities i.e Leadership ....could very easily have a knock on effect to the rest of the team....I have seen it in the past.

Take a Keane or a Viera out of their sides in their Hay day.....and it would make a huge difference, to the other players too....when Gerrard was out on the Liverpool team, it was noticably,weaker,  when Jack was out, we floundered even more.....Talismen are a huge influence on the other players.....We need one in midfield.

I don't understand you last line and its inference.

Edited April 5, 2022 by TRO

[bose]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

Can you explain to me.......why so many can't see your points?

90% of Villa fans see this problem. It’s been the main talking point on this site, especially when we’re in a bad run of form. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, HKP90 said:

And to add, I don't think he's a crap manager now, just as I didn't think he was the second coming of Pep before. 

I have to say, I thought he was able to influence the character of this side,better than he has, ( that's not a criticism, more of my misjudgment) similar to what Viera has done at Palace, (bearing in my mind Hodgson did leave a durable well organised team for Viera to add the spice) taking over from such a wily old fox, must have helped PV enormously.

......but I don't think SG can, get a consistent tune out of them.....they are too similar in make up.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

If we sell one, I cant see a team taking Ings because his age/contract and Watkins on this form

If we sign a 3rd one to go without shipping one of these 2 then its Bruce all over. The manager will need to work with them if we cant ship one out, he is supposed to be a coach and improve players

You could say that about our whole team down the middle apart from DM, we have plenty of CB’s, Midfielders, wingers and strikers. We obviously have to ship out players but we don’t have a striker that fits Gerrard’s system, and I’d argue we don’t have midfielders and CB’s that fit Gerrard’s system and style.  Yes he has to work with them but if we are talking about what he needs to fit his system and style then he definitely needs a new striker.  I agree with your first sentence aside from teams would still take Watkins because outside the club they see his poor form enough so are a bit blinded by it so still change we can get a premium for him.

[Hobsons Choice]

1 hour ago, picicata said:

Actually it was a massive difference. The width was provided by one of the two front players going wide which meant that the full back could be more defensive, which in turn meant the number 8s could play through the middle without the worry of moving to the full back area. That's a major formation change not a 'tweak'

Of course some of our players are not up to it but the 4321 system is also damaging us and Gerrard seems determined to play it. He needs to accept that he doesn't have the players, play a formation for which he does and then change in the summer once he has the players he wants. Currently he is destroying good will and damaging team moral by forcing a foot into a glove.

I mean, I know I'm going to get toasted for this, but if we do want our fullbacks to provide the width, could we not........go..............3 at the back?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

55 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Are you alright?

No... i'm unhinged.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, bose said:

90% of Villa fans see this problem. It’s been the main talking point on this site, especially when we’re in a bad run of form. 

Maybe , judging by the podcasts....Maybe VT is not as representative of the fan base as a whole.

but there are still tell signs when we win......its just that we score the goals to give us the result.....and we don't feel inclined to talk about them, as we just want to rejoice, which is natural.

[picicata]

Just now, HKP90 said:

I mean, I know I'm going to get toasted for this, but if we do want our fullbacks to provide the width, could we not........go..............3 at the back?

I dislike the formation but would make more sense with the players we currently have than what we are doing

[sparrow1988]

Just now, HKP90 said:

3 at the back?

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

If we sell one, I cant see a team taking Ings because his age/contract and Watkins on this form

If we sign a 3rd one to go without shipping one of these 2 then its Bruce all over. The manager will need to work with them if we cant ship one out, he is supposed to be a coach and improve players

I think a lot of clubs would be interested in both. Watkins we'd make a profit on and Ings a loss. We need to sign the right type of players so these players can flourish. 

[duke313]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

I mean, I know I'm going to get toasted for this, but if we do want our fullbacks to provide the width, could we not........go..............3 at the back?

I've suggested this as well.  It wouldn't even be a massive departure from the current 4321, just drop the DM to form a back 3 and push the full backs into wing backs.

[og1874]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

I think a lot of clubs would be interested in both. Watkins we'd make a profit on and Ings a loss. We need to sign the right type of players so these players can flourish. 

I'm still of the opinion that if we can offload both, we should