Team shape, tactics and personnel

[PerryBarrPet]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

I'm happy with our fullbacks, and our 10s. It's clear our CBs and Midfield lack the skills to build play from the back. McGinn is (as well all know) a poor passer of the ball. His pass completion % is in the bottom 10% of all midfielders in the top 5 leagues. He is also in the bottom 20% for passes attempted. So he doesn't pass much and when he does he's appallingly bad at it. He cannot be a regular in the first team. Add to that his inconsistency is his hallmark. Luiz as the holding midfielder doesn't get above the 40% in passes attempted or completed despite being in the position where this is a fundamental basic of the position. Especially because the issues with him are he is poor defensively, he also does nothing in possession. 

Both those players need to be removed as regular first team players if we are to fix the midfield. Then in defence we have CBs who struggle under the opposition press and lack any passing skills to build from the back. If we don't build from the back the system fails. We need to pass the ball through midfield to our 10s. That is the system. If we are a long ball team from defence we need wide forwards to make runs onto them. So until we have two new midfielders and at least one new CB (ideally 2) we will continue to fail to progress.

 

Yes, plus we need a CF/striker who can keep the ball when it’s played up to him. Much to do in the summer. I hope Gerrard et al. are working on this as we write.

[CVByrne]

I think his decision to stick with the same teams as against Leeds was to give them the chance to make amends for the Leeds performance. The fact they played their worst game yet means he has to change it. He wants multiple players for positions so by his own book he has to change it. 

Ings and Sanson coming in are givens now. 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, RichW said:

Apart from Digne, Coutinho and Chambers (whose only playing because of Konsa suspension) it's still the same team put in these type of performances that got Dean Smith sacked. We won't see properly see Gerrard's type of football until next season when he has had the summer window and a full pre-season to get more of his players in. Until then we will be putting in our fair share of these poor performances for the rest of the season.

Are you happy with performances of Digne and chambers ? 

[Dante_Lockhart]

15 hours ago, MaVilla said:

its because McGinn cant play intricate passes, he isnt composed in tight spaces, and doesnt have the technical ability to play that type of football.

With regard to Luiz, i think he likes to take too much time, he's too slow, too pondersome, and also isnt as technically gifted as people think he is, if im honest.

I think its a scenario of, we are overrating some of our players, thinking they are much better than they are.

I also think Watkins is completely incapable of playing the tight, intricate type of football that Gerrard wants to the front 3 to play, the ball pounces off him like he is a plank of wood.

Cash is also like kryptonite to how Gerrard wants to play, once Casg passes the half way line he is gash.

 

The fact is, imo, only Martinez, Digne, Ramsey, Buendia & Coutinho (and maybe the CD's), are good enough for the starting 11, in terms of the style Gerrard wants to play.

Cash, Mcginn, Luiz & Watkins are 100% not good enough.

 

I noticed at one point in the first half Chambers played him the ball, Luiz turned and sort of stopped - Chambers basically shouted and pointed forward, which Luiz did do (ran up to the half way line and played a forward pass), but only after a kick up the arse.

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I noticed at one point in the first half Chambers played him the ball, Luiz turned and sort of stopped - Chambers basically shouted and pointed forward, which Luiz did do (ran up to the half way line and played a forward pass), but only after a kick up the arse.

Buendia was shouting at the coaches, Beale and Gerrard that the midfield were not passing the ball. We were just doing long balls from the back. We need 2 new CMs and a new CB this summer who we know can play the system. 

[CVByrne]

11 minutes ago, hippo said:

Are you happy with performances of Digne and chambers ? 

I think Chambers did well enough. Digne wasn't accurate and he and JJ just seemed to be on different pages. 

[kevpants]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

I'm happy with our fullbacks, and our 10s. It's clear our CBs and Midfield lack the skills to build play from the back. McGinn is (as well all know) a poor passer of the ball. His pass completion % is in the bottom 10% of all midfielders in the top 5 leagues. He is also in the bottom 20% for passes attempted. So he doesn't pass much and when he does he's appallingly bad at it. He cannot be a regular in the first team. Add to that his inconsistency is his hallmark. Luiz as the holding midfielder doesn't get above the 40% in passes attempted or completed despite being in the position where this is a fundamental basic of the position. Especially because the issues with him are he is poor defensively, he also does nothing in possession. 

Both those players need to be removed as regular first team players if we are to fix the midfield. Then in defence we have CBs who struggle under the opposition press and lack any passing skills to build from the back. If we don't build from the back the system fails. We need to pass the ball through midfield to our 10s. That is the system. If we are a long ball team from defence we need wide forwards to make runs onto them. So until we have two new midfielders and at least one new CB (ideally 2) we will continue to fail to progress.

 

I'm not happy with our full backs. I'm happy with one. Digne is a good signing but he was awful yesterday. 

In this system the fullbacks are the absolute key players, more so than your strikers or CBs or anything. The are your chief attacking outlet, the ball always makes it's way to them in attacking situations. Liverpool have excelled at this but they have Robertson and TAA, two of the best attacking fullbacks in world football. And they are covered in midfield by Henderson and Fabinho who are athletic, energetic and incredibly positionally aware.

We are a bit like a pound shop Liverpool. At the moment I can only see Digne being good enough for this system.

Cash is a liability, I really like him as a traditional fullback. A tough tackling energetic player who is perfect acting as a foil to a good winger. We don't have wingers. So he needs to be TAA. He never will be. His delivery is just not good enough, there's no guile in his crossing or passing or his dribbling.

I don't know if McGinn is clever enough to be one of the two covering midfielders but I think he's be great in a more advanced role. I always think we've played him 15 yards too deep.

Luiz is clever and can do a job but we need someone with a bit more presence and awareness in midfield with him.

I can't help but think Ramsey's rise to being this exciting player needs to be slowed a bit because he's so young and he clearly doesn't fully get the system yet, especially defensively.

I'd love if Iroegbunam could step into the team and save us £40m but it's a lot to ask of a young player. He appears to have a better defensive mindset though and I think that's what we need.

 

[CVByrne]

15 minutes ago, RichW said:

Apart from Digne, Coutinho and Chambers (whose only playing because of Konsa suspension) it's still the same team put in these type of performances that got Dean Smith sacked. We won't see properly see Gerrard's type of football until next season when he has had the summer window and a full pre-season to get more of his players in. Until then we will be putting in our fair share of these poor performances for the rest of the season.

The same team who had a pretty shocking 2021 in general. All the things that had me enraged in Spring last year against teams like Burnley, Newcastle, Sheffield United, etc.. is still there. The problem which has not been resolved for two windows in succession is the midfield. We also have an issue at CB due to the change in approach which requires building from the back

[Dante_Lockhart]

To be fair to Newcastle, they closed us down rapidly all day. We need to find ways to get around that but I don't think our current crop of CMs are suited to the quick pass and move system.

[RichW]

17 minutes ago, hippo said:

Are you happy with performances of Digne and chambers ? 

Chambers did ok I thought providing it was his first start apart from his clumsy foul. From an attacking point of view I think Digne is doing ok, an obvious improvement on Targett and in the long run will feel like a great signing. Doesn't help that none of our strikers can score at the moment. 

[tinker]

39 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

What's the good you're seeing? I hope to see it soon.

Makes no sense letting him buy players if we're going to have to sack him in the next 18 months.

We have attracted Coutinho. 

The only way to strengthen the middle is to ask the wingers to help the wing backs and let the midfield hold the midfield rather than assist the wing backs . The only issue with that is the wingers we have don't seem great at the defensive part of the game. 

Tbh the squad looks a mess , we are overloaded with attacking players and severely lacking in grit in the middle. Can't believe the amount of money we have spent and ended up with a squad who from where I'm standing now and if the form continues are going to be dragged into the bottom half .

[duke313]

15 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

I really hope the manager rings the changes come the Weekend. If there was one thing that irritated me sometimes about Deano it was his persistence in always playing certain individuals regardless of form.

Any successful manager has to have that ruthless streak .

Defo need a few changes this weekend to freshen things up.

[Tomaszk]

55 minutes ago, tinker said:

We have attracted Coutinho. 

The only way to strengthen the middle is to ask the wingers to help the wing backs and let the midfield hold the midfield rather than assist the wing backs . The only issue with that is the wingers we have don't seem great at the defensive part of the game. 

Tbh the squad looks a mess , we are overloaded with attacking players and severely lacking in grit in the middle. Can't believe the amount of money we have spent and ended up with a squad who from where I'm standing now and if the form continues are going to be dragged into the bottom half .

The squad isn't a mess. Bit light in a few areas on quality, but not on numbers.

We don't play with any wingers, and won't be signing any while Steven Gerrard is manager. The central midfielders are tasked with helping the full back, and I don't think it works very well unless we're leading and can sit right in.

[avfc1982am]

3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

The squad isn't a mess. Bit light in a few areas on quality, but not on numbers.

We don't play with any wingers, and won't be signing any while Steven Gerrard is manager. The central midfielders are tasked with helping the full back, and I don't think it works very well unless we're leading and can sit right in.

Correct. When the FBs advance McGinn and Luiz are covering the vacated spaces. 

 

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

To be fair to Newcastle, they closed us down rapidly all day. We need to find ways to get around that but I don't think our current crop of CMs are suited to the quick pass and move system.

So did Leeds tbf. The bottom line is until we learn to play 1-2 touch we are going nowhere.

When we piss around trying to slow everything down we create our own problems and when we speed up we create opportunities. We are either one or the other at the moment and we need to be more like the latter continually until we can hold the ball for longer periods and control the tempo. 

[A'Villan]

Emi

Cash - Konsa - Mings - Digne 

McGinn - Luiz

Buendia - JJ - Coutinho 

Bailey

[AV82]

I think the next game will be defining in a way. Gerrard hasn't had to react to a series of poor performances until now. I don't think he'll stand for it and I'm hoping we'll see a big shake up. I dare say Smith would've kept things the same and I'm hoping Gerrard will be more proactive, at least on the face of it, by giving others a chance and really making a statement by benching previous favourites like Cash, McGinn and Watkins.

[Delphinho123]

I'm going to say something I never thought I'd say.

But. 

Could we perhaps move to a hybrid 3-5-2 formation....?

-------------------------------------------Ings------------------------------------------
---------------------------Coutinho--------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------Buendia--------------------------------
--------------------Ramsey------------------------------------Luiz----------------
Digne--------------------------------------------------------------------------Cash
---------------------Mings---------Chambers------Konsa-------------------
------------------------------------Martinez------------------------------------------

It's madness I know. 

[Zatman]

Just now, AV82 said:

I think the next game will be defining in a way. Gerrard hasn't had to react to a series of poor performances until now. I don't think he'll stand for it and I'm hoping we'll see a big shake up. I dare say Smith would've kept things the same and I'm hoping Gerrard will be more proactive, at least on the face of it, by giving others a chance and really making a statement by benching previous favourites like Cash, McGinn and Watkins.

Cash wont be dropped as we dont have another right back as Konsa is still out

I think I will scream if McGinn and Watkins start vs Watford 

[Delphinho123]

Just now, Zatman said:

Cash wont be dropped as we dont have another right back as Konsa is still out

I think I will scream if McGinn and Watkins start vs Watford 

If Watkins starts against Watford then it will be tragic. Nobody can play that poorly and keep their place. Nobody.

McGinn might get away with it due to being very good at times earlier in the season. Watkins has been horrific the entire campaign.