General officiating/rules

[Davkaus]

12 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

It's not above the shirt line, as you can clearly see

 

 

9 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I thought the shirtline wasn't the rule anymore after man city had a shirt with a longer sleeve 

It's never been the literal line of the shirt, that was used as short-hand in the media, it's the armpit essentially

Edited December 23, 2023 by Davkaus

[switters]

13 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

No

he runs forward about another 5-7m completely uncontested and under no pressure. If he makes that pass SU have a very good chance to counter, and he completely **** it up. 
 

also before this screenshot, his teammate, again under no pressure, passed the ball to him

 

its a new phase of play under any interpretation and easily via the eye test 

in the context of the match it was one of Sheff Utd's most sustained spells of possession!

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Also the ‘shirt line’ nonsense doesn’t really count when he full on volleyball style batted it away.

You can't on the one hand be demanding people link to sections of the rules, then in the next post be making up your own rules like this  

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

 

It's never been the literal line of the shirt, that was used as short-hand in the media, it's the armpit essentially

Then that's handball 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

You can't on the one hand be demanding people link to sections of the rules, then in the next post be making up your own rules like this  

Tbf I’m not saying that it’s handball because the rules say it is. It’s pretty obviously handball from the eye test considering the motion of arm to ball and the way the ball moves 

[Davkaus]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Then that's handball 

I think there's one bit I'm not clear of in terms of how they apply that line. Is it that any of the ball touching *below* that line makes it handball, or that any touch *above* that line means it isn't handball, similarly to 99% of the ball being over the line doesn't mean it's out of play? This was quite a close one either way IMO and I think you could call it either way depending on the answer to that.

I've genuinely got no idea.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Davkaus

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Tbf I’m not saying that it’s handball because the rules say it is. It’s pretty obviously handball from the eye test considering the motion of arm to ball and the way the ball moves 

It was defo handball by PGMOL rules, so we should expect that apology. But we are not one of the big 6 media title contenders, so probably won't hear about it again.

Arteta would be crying over that, that's for sure.

 

 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

You can't on the one hand be demanding people link to sections of the rules, then in the next post be making up your own rules like this  

He posted the rules himself in this thread last night.

Now he wants me to post them again

From your own post last night @StefanAVFC 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Genie

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Davkaus said:

I think there's one bit I'm not clear of in terms of how they apply that line. Is it that any of the ball touching *below* that line makes it handball, or that any touch *above* that line means it isn't handball, similarly to 99% of the ball being over the line doesn't mean it's out of play?

I've genuinely got no idea.

And if there’s any ambiguity, the fact he’s punched it should be the definitive factor

[Davkaus]

Just now, Genie said:

He posted the rules himself in this thread last night.

Now he wants me to post them again

From your own post last night

That's in a different subsection of the rules to the defending team gaining controlled possession, so I'd say that's irrelevant 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

He posted the rules himself in this thread last night.

Now he wants me to post them again

From your own post last night

But the underlined bit in the rules there doesn’t apply to it. The 2nd part does. The defending team gain controlled possession of the ball, which they did. They clearly controlled, moved and passed the ball, even before the poor pass that Ollie intercepted. 
 

And anyway the forward movement stops when they recover the ball and start attacking us again. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by StefanAVFC

[Lichfield Dean]

Just now, Genie said:

He posted the rules himself in this thread last night.

Now he wants me to post them again

From your own post last night

It literally says "the defending team gained controlled possession" which they did. Why are you ignoring that bit?

[Davkaus]

I think it's very funny that the more they try and fix these rules, the worse it gets.

[StefanAVFC]

Above all else, if we’re nitpicking the rules like this, surely it’s not a clear and obvious error so no VAR intervention anyway..,,

[villa4europe]

I'll be honest... Arguing over phases of play is a sad state of affairs 

How can they make something so simple that complicated?

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

But the underlined bit in the rules there doesn’t apply to it. The 2nd part does. The defending team gain controlled possession of the ball, which they did. They clearly controlled, moved and passed the ball, even before the poor pass that Ollie intercepted. 
 

And anyway the forward movement stops when they recover the ball and start attacking us again. 

 

7 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

It literally says "the defending team gained controlled possession" which they did. Why are you ignoring that bit?

It doesn’t say “or” in between those bullet points, so both must apply. 
The ball must no longer be in / around the penalty area AND the defending team gain controlled possession (which is debatable on its own, but in combination of point one is clearly not a new phase according to the rules).

So if Sheffield United win the ball back and pass it around 10 times in their own penalty area it’s still the same phase of play (according to the rules) because it’s still in/around the penalty area.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Genie

[StefanAVFC]

If taking multiple touches, passing to a teammate, dribbling forward at least 5 metres and then trying a 2nd pass (which was intercepted) isn’t controlled possession then I can honestly say I have no idea what is. 

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

It doesn’t say “or” in between those bullet points, so both must apply. 
The ball must no longer be in / around the penalty area AND the defending team gain controlled possession (which is debatable on its own, but in combination of point one is clearly not a new phase according to the rules).

So if Sheffield United win the ball back and pass it around 10 times in their own penalty area it’s still the same phase of play (according to the rules) because it’s still in/around the penalty area.

Sorry but that’s complete nonsense and contradictory. It also fails the eye test (which is actually consistent with PGMOL as every one of their judgements seems to)

Edited December 23, 2023 by StefanAVFC

[Lichfield Dean]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

 

It doesn’t say “or” in between those bullet points, so both must apply. 
The ball must no longer be in / around the penalty area AND the defending team gain controlled possession (which is debatable on its own, but in combination of point one is clearly not a new phase according to the rules).

I mean, you are making assumptions about the wording there right? They should be more clear if it's an "and", as it is it's totally open to interpretation.

And it is in no way debatable that they had control, that's just ridiculous.

The rules suck anyway, as always.

[Genie]

 

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Sorry but that’s complete nonsense and contradictory. It also fails the eye test (which is actually consistent with PGMOL as every one of their judgements seems to)

What are you on about? You quoted the rules yourself. It clearly states that the attacking phase hasn’t ended if the ball is still in/around the penalty area. 

How can you argue with that?