Lamare Bogarde

[nepal_villan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

My understanding is, even if a player has a destined position on the football field, he/she has to understand the role of other positions.

Only when they play it, do they understand properly.

MON was an staunch advocate of this.

It's not always about playing players out of position, it's sometimes about development, and the process along the way of becoming a complete player.

That's why you have youth football and the Academy. By the time you are in the senior team you should know these things.  There are cases like Joelinton, but that's trying to find use for an existing asset, not grooming him to be a midfielder by starting him at forward.

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Carlos may have his weaknesses, but he's a perfectly fine option.

Bogarde looks like a competition winner.

 

I'm sure he has a big future and I have every faith Emery knows what he's doing. But Bogarde looks absolutely miles off it at the moment. We need a different solution

he must really not like ned for him not to have come on in the last 2 games

i thought he was fine when we've seen him but i trust that emery can judge better than me

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

He's done okay, not been great but has done okay - he's out of position and often looks it, he's learning to play right back as he goes along and in some really tough contests - he'll be better for that experience.

I wonder if he'll get a run out as a DM against Wycombe - be nice for him to get a go in his natural position.

I agree, like Tim last season. The time he gets on the pitch is to help his development. We are obviously going to sell him next summer as we do with all young players who are not immediately ready to be reliable first team player for their position. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Carlos is not suited to our system and has proven to be a liability through the mistakes he makes. There's no upside to it either due to his age, so if we're going to have a weaker link in defence it makes sense to not have it right in the middle and I'd rather choose someone who will likely improve over time anyway. 

I'd agree if the weaknesses were the same. But they're not. Bogarde is a far bigger weakness

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Pez1974 said:

That's incredibly harsh.

 

It isn't. He's been a glaring weakness for 3 games running.

Edited yesterday at 13:51 by Stevo985

[romavillan]

9 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

he must really not like ned for him not to have come on in the last 2 games

i thought he was fine when we've seen him but i trust that emery can judge better than me

I think it's tactical, Emery likes the RB to play as a RCB of 3 when we have the ball and the LB gets up the pitch. Just look at all the times Konsa was RB.

I think Ned will play when we're set up more attacking. Bogarde may or may not become the answer for us so Konsa can play in his best position. I won't write him off yet though. In the past few years on here people have wanted to flog Watkins, get rid of Bailey, called Tielemanns a waste of space etc etc

Let's give him some time.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I think it's tactical, Emery likes the RB to play as a RCB of 3 when we have the ball and the LB gets up the pitch. Just look at all the times Konsa was RB.

I think Ned will play when we're set up more attacking. Bogarde may or may not become the answer for us so Konsa can play in his best position. I won't write him off yet though. In the past few years on here people have wanted to flog Watkins, get rid of Bailey, called Tielemanns a waste of space etc etc

Let's give him some time.

Just to clarify, I haven't seen anyone writing him off.

I think most people have said he's probably got a big future.

 

All people are worried about is him being a weakness right now. Which he is

[Rodders]

tough night last night but he was ok v everton. Still a clear weak point in our side though. I'm surprised Kosta hasn't been given some time out therer though

[Czarnikjak]

12 minutes ago, Rodders said:

tough night last night but he was ok v everton. Still a clear weak point in our side though. I'm surprised Kosta hasn't been given some time out therer though

Only explanation is that Emery thinks Ned would be even bigger liability than Bogarde at the moment.

Had Carlos been fully fit last few weeks he would have played instead I think (with Konsa at RB)

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd agree if the weaknesses were the same. But they're not. Bogarde is a far bigger weakness

If that were true, why is Emery persisting with him instead of playing Carlos?

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, lexicon said:

If that were true, why is Emery persisting with him instead of playing Carlos?

Wasn't Carlos returning from injury?

[lexicon]

6 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Wasn't Carlos returning from injury?

Fair point. Wasn't injured for long though and it seemed to mysteriously coincide with him getting sent off stupidly in pre-season. 

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, lexicon said:

If that were true, why is Emery persisting with him instead of playing Carlos?

Carlos returning from injury. 
And Bogarde's potential. I'm sure he'll be a good player, he might have shown it in training and u23 games. So Emery gave him a chance.

 

He was poor for 2 games and got hooked at half time last night. I'd be very surprised if he starts on the weekend

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Carlos returning from injury. 
And Bogarde's potential. I'm sure he'll be a good player, he might have shown it in training and u23 games. So Emery gave him a chance.

 

He was poor for 2 games and got hooked at half time last night. I'd be very surprised if he starts on the weekend

I wouldn't tbh. You've got to take the rough with the smooth with young players. Carlos has no future here.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I wouldn't tbh. You've got to take the rough with the smooth with young players. Carlos has no future here.

By that logic we just play all of our youth players until they're good enough regardless of the performances.

 

It's not like this has never happened before. Emery clearly wanted to use Iroegbenhum more last season, but he was dogshit when we played him so he went back to not featuring. And then we sold him  

It happens.

Edited yesterday at 16:01 by Stevo985

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

By that logic we just play all of our youth players until they're good enough regardless of the performances.

It's not like this has never happened before. Emery clearly wanted to use Iroegbenhum more last season, but he was dogshit when we played him so he went back to not featuring. And then we sold him  

It happens.

No, not at all.

The logic is that if you have two players who aren't good enough but one might be with the requisite experience, you let the youngster play. 

It's clear that we don't agree on Carlos' level because I think he's a liability and would much rather have the weak link at RB than at CB and not have to break up Torres and Konsa. 

[thabucks]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It isn't. He's been a glaring weakness for 3 games running.

How many points has he caused us to drop - none YET …. You will always have this conundrum of risk vs reward with youth players and he looks like he’s not ready but only way he will be ready is by playing - it’s tricky but Emery & Co see him every day in training and obviously have faith in him… 

[VillaAlex]

Football is very much about calculated risks looking at long term benefits. There has been a question mark raised against Emery not playing academy players and now he is of course that player is our weakest player and is targeted.

This is especially going to be the case at fullback which is the hardest position to play in modern football. 

Every team also has a weakness and teams will purposefully exploit that weakness, unfortunately for Lamare he is the target right now. He's never played football at this level and is having to adapt and adapt fast. When a team is doing well and you are not that is even more apparent. 

Every minute he plays is valuable for his development and our development as a team. When the fixtures pile up and we are down to bare bones we will have another player with more experience, more confidence.

Every game he plays he will be getting a wealth of great feedback from Emery and his team to learn from. He's not going to learn this in a matter of weeks but over time his development will be to the benefit of it. 

[abdulaziz1]

He isn’t terrible, all players have mistakes in them. Cash himself was the most player to fail the offside trap (not a stat but from what I remember). We need to play those youngsters. There are games which playing them won’t affect us badly. He isn’t very good at RB but I think he can do an ok job when we’re playing at home certain games. Not Everton ofcourse because of physicality. 
Some of the things that make him playing those games important are:

-Emery didn’t play a lot of academy players, so if there was a doubt in the approach now won’t be an issue (there is a highly rated striker didn’t sign for Arsenal and went for free to Utd because he thinks that Utd give more chances to feature).

-Developing a player both technically and mentally to build the needed confidence when we really left only with him.

-Raising the value of the player, each minute he features teams will know how valuable he is to Emery which will make them start thinking of him.

-The only goal he was the mistake at was Leicester. Onana did a terrible mistake for Everton goal. But that’s how things goes and the way we play it’s very much expected.

-His passing in the first game was terrible yet improved after that.

-Even during Cash days he was the weak link, the system itself might be inviting other teams to attack this area.

-He’s playing ahead of an Emrey signing, that’s give everyone more confidence that he doesn’t have any ego or so.

-People have to look short term as well as long term. We have a lot of games, how will we manage the squad short-midterm? While using all of that and utilizing decisions to benefit our longer term (wether we looked at the player as a long term or just use and maximize the sell). 
 

[DJ_Villain]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd agree if the weaknesses were the same. But they're not. Bogarde is a far bigger weakness

You’re absolutely right…

and other teams know it as well!

Young Boys went straight down that left hand side and were bullying him with their experience