Lamare Bogarde

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Andy_10 said:

I think he has shown good control of the football, along with good passing ability. He has shown glimpses of the speed he has in his locker. Its not the same as Nedeljkovic's speed, so looks weaker than it is, in my humble opinion, 

And I am convinced that he is doing what Emery asks of him in terms of sitting a little deeper to make up that back trio.

Defensively, he hasn't been too solid though. Especially when it comes to holding that backline or stopping crosses.

There is more to come from him though, I am convinced. 

I think this is a medium/ long term project.....He see's something in him and is willing to nurture it.

Lets not forget Tielemans and Rogers, have improved a bundle since they came to us......this might take longer.

I am willing to give this boy a chance, timelines on these things are hard to predict....and Unai has a damn good record at this stuff.

Both boys are learning but Bogarde tends to sit more defensively where Kosta has a tendency to raid down the flank and looks a bit lightweight at the moment, this can leave him out of position more than Lamar.

Edited Wednesday at 10:56 by TRO

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Yes but that is a worse eventuality because it means we have to put up with Carlos at CB. 

Maybe. Or Bogarde himself may be better in his natural position. Or Mings comes back and plays alongside Pau, with one of them picking up the right side. There are other options, although none of them are guaranteed successes. Defintely an area we should have addressed in the summer, as everyone was saying at the time. Guess we didn't expect a prolonged injury to Cash though.

[Adam2003]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Lets not forget Tielemans and Rogers, have improved a bundle since they came to us......this might take longer.

I think Ramsey’s performances in his first few months, when he was definitely being played with a view to the future - and many were saying “he’s not good enough, get rid” - are a good parallel.

[Andy_10]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think this is a medium/ long term project.....He see's something in him and is willing to nurture it.

Lets not forget Tielemans and Rogers, have improved a bundle since they came to us......this might take longer.

I am willing to give this boy a chance, timelines on these things are hard to predict....and Unai has a damn good record at this stuff.

Both boys are learning but Bogarde tends to sit more defensively where Kosta has a tendency to raid down the flank and looks a bit lightweight at the moment, this can leave him out of position more than Lamar.

I agree that he is probably a longer term project. And I think he will improve over the next six months.

His control & passing abilities are already strong.

Its just the high line & getting in front of crosses that he is having the issue with currently. But its all a learning curve for him.

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I think Ramsey’s performances in his first few months, when he was definitely being played with a view to the future - and many were saying “he’s not good enough, get rid” - are a good parallel.

How many were guilty, including myself, of Bailey get out of our club first season. One of the most "I'm happy to have been wrong" players in a long time

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Adam2003 said:

I think Ramsey’s performances in his first few months, when he was definitely being played with a view to the future - and many were saying “he’s not good enough, get rid” - are a good parallel.

I honestly believe sometimes, going out on loan, is not always the right move.

I also believe, that there is a certain type of development, can only be achieved in the first team.

I saw it with so many of our young stars, Barry, Shaw, Grealish, Cowans, Cahill, Ehiogu, Ramsey

If the player is lucky enough, to be given that time to develop in and around the first team....it's priceless.

You can't have too many, granted, but those that get it are privileged.

[Kiwivillan]

I warned people on FFS chat who were loading their FPL wildcard teams with Nedel as a cheap defender, that Emery had mentioned Bogarde as an option and  Emery is not Pep. If he mentions a player they are definitely in consideration and so it was

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Andy_10 said:

I agree that he is probably a longer term project. And I think he will improve over the next six months.

His control & passing abilities are already strong.

Its just the high line & getting in front of crosses that he is having the issue with currently. But its all a learning curve for him.

These young players are invariably like that, good bits, and weak bits.

That's part of his learning process to become a complete player.

like you say, some things you have to have intrinsically like a first touch or an ability to pass....and then work on the rest.

He will undoubtedly fill out, and his confidence and belief will improve.....but I trust Unai's judgment.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

How many were guilty, including myself, of Bailey get out of our club first season. One of the most "I'm happy to have been wrong" players in a long time

We all get it wrong at some point......and isn't it great when we do?

Your  example was quite a dramatic one imo...such a transformation.

Edited Wednesday at 11:19 by TRO

[Kiwivillan]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

These young players are invariably like that, good bits, and weak bits.

That's part of his learning process to become a complete player.

like you say, some things you have to have intrinsically like a first touch or an ability to pass....and then work on the rest.

He will undoubtedly fill out, and his confidence and belief will improve.....but I trust Unai's judgment.

I have more confidence in Emery to mold a player than I think I ever had from a Villa manager in... just realised 30 years following Villa. 1994 wow

[tomav84]

18 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

How many were guilty, including myself, of Bailey get out of our club first season. One of the most "I'm happy to have been wrong" players in a long time

i don't think anyone is saying "sell him" or writing him off

many (including me) simply say he's not ready right now, and certainly not to play RB. with bailey, he's at least playing RW so it's not a position that a bad performance really hurts us. bogarde has already cost us a goal vs leicester, and would've cost us a goal vs everton due to his poor positioning if DCL had his shooting boots on

and the problem we now have is that he's being targeted. he was targeted vs everton and was roasted by mcneil and he was roasted by their LW last night too...problem we have is that ait nouri is better than these others and i can see wolves targeting him saturday

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

Yes but that is a worse eventuality because it means we have to put up with Carlos at CB. 

That's a far better option than Bogarde at RB to be honest. Far far better

[TRO]

My understanding is, even if a player has a destined position on the football field, he/she has to understand the role of other positions.

Only when they play it, do they understand properly.

MON was an staunch advocate of this.

It's not always about playing players out of position, it's sometimes about development, and the process along the way of becoming a complete player.

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

My understanding is, even if a player has a destined position on the football field, he/she has to understand the role of other positions.

Only when they play it, do they understand properly.

MON was an staunch advocate of this.

It's not always about playing players out of position, it's sometimes about development, and the process along the way of becoming a complete player.

I think this is why Maatsen isn't starting yet. You have to play like Emery wants like a metronome and Digne knows what Emery wants. I think same is true of Cash as much as people want an upgrade. Cash mostly plays the line like Emery wants.... most of the time or better than he has available

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I think this is why Maatsen isn't starting yet. You have to play like Emery wants like a metronome and Digne knows what Emery wants. I think same is true of Cash as much as people want an upgrade. Cash mostly plays the line like Emery wants.... most of the time or better than he has available

That's right.

Years ago a new player going to Liverpool, had to earn his spurs in the rezzers, before being inducted in to the first team.

With all the detail Unai instils in to them, you need a degree in the Emery way, before being let loose on the grass.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:57 by TRO

[lexicon]

32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That's a far better option than Bogarde at RB to be honest. Far far better

I don't think it is. 

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I don't think it is. 

Carlos may have his weaknesses, but he's a perfectly fine option.

Bogarde looks like a competition winner.

 

I'm sure he has a big future and I have every faith Emery knows what he's doing. But Bogarde looks absolutely miles off it at the moment. We need a different solution

[lexicon]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Carlos may have his weaknesses, but he's a perfectly fine option.

Bogarde looks like a competition winner.

 

I'm sure he has a big future and I have every faith Emery knows what he's doing. But Bogarde looks absolutely miles off it at the moment. We need a different solution

Carlos is not suited to our system and has proven to be a liability through the mistakes he makes. There's no upside to it either due to his age, so if we're going to have a weaker link in defence it makes sense to not have it right in the middle and I'd rather choose someone who will likely improve over time anyway. 

[Pez1974]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Carlos may have his weaknesses, but he's a perfectly fine option.

Bogarde looks like a competition winner.

 

I'm sure he has a big future and I have every faith Emery knows what he's doing. But Bogarde looks absolutely miles off it at the moment. We need a different solution

That's incredibly harsh.

We know Emery likes to be able to switch to 3 at the back in games, so it means we need to option of a CB at RB on occasions. That seems to be either Konsa or Bogarde. 

And the team looks set-up to overload the left in attacking positons.
He wasn't to blame for either Everton goal. 

I suspect he is partly following instructions - and well enough to get in ahead of Ned - and is making mistakes, but on balance, Unai seems to be happy. 
I also think a couple of soft decisions against Young Boys rattled him (you know - the fall over screaming approach they had in the first half) and Unai went for more nous after half-time. 

[OutByEaster?]

He's done okay, not been great but has done okay - he's out of position and often looks it, he's learning to play right back as he goes along and in some really tough contests - he'll be better for that experience.

I wonder if he'll get a run out as a DM against Wycombe - be nice for him to get a go in his natural position.