Rugeley Villa Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: There is no ‘opinion’ to be had on whether trans kids are real and deserve equal care and love to everyone else. That’s not an ‘opinion’ it’s a basic human right. When did I say they don’t deserve equal care and love ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: It’s pretty much black and white for me regarding children. Boy/Girl. If the boy wants to dress up and pretend to be a girl because he wants to be a girl does that make him a girl? 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: I wouldn’t agree with that at school either 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: And that’s ok as long as you are happy with that . I’m a dad of 3 by the way. 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Leave schools to teach what they get paid to teach . 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Just shouldn’t be taught in general . 3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: When did I say they don’t deserve equal care and love ? C’mon, are you just chatting shit ‘cos you’re bored or something, it’s just not coherent to deny what you’ve been saying minutes after you’ve written it down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: C’mon, are you just chatting shit ‘cos you’re bored or something, it’s just not coherent to deny what you’ve been saying minutes after you’ve written it down. They are my views yes . Where does it say though that I don’t think all kids/adults don’t deserve the same love and care . There was some posts about maybe having some support network at the schools but not having trans as part of the curriculum or not having it as part of a lesson which I agree with. oh yeah I’m bored so thought I’d try and get a reaction Edited July 4 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: They are my views yes . Where does it say though that I don’t think all kids/adults don’t deserve the same love and care . There was some posts about maybe having some support network at the schools but not having trans as part of the curriculum or not having it as part of a lesson which I agree with. oh yeah I’m bored so thought I’d try and get a reaction Easy innit, poke the trans kids debate for a bit of attention. Cool. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nor-Cal Villan Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) Speaking to what goes on here, when it comes to grooming and other associated violations of children that make the news, it’s never the drag queens or transgenders that are caught/charged/convicted. No, it’s always religious leaders, law enforcement, coaches, scout leaders, politicians, friends of the family. Your run of the mill “upstanding” pillars of the community Edited July 4 by Nor-Cal Villan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Just now, chrisp65 said: Easy innit, poke the trans kids debate for a bit of attention. Cool. So I’m an attention seeker now. Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 minute ago, Nor-Cal Villan said: Speaking to what goes on here, when it comes to grooming and other associated violations of children that make the news, it’s never the drag queens or transgenders that are caught/charged/convicted. No, it’s always religious leaders, coaches, scout leaders, politicians, friends of the family. Your run of the mill “upstanding” pillars of the community What you trying to point out ? I’m sure all walks of life and all types have been done for sexual abuse on children . If you really think trans people have never sexually abused anyone you are deluded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nor-Cal Villan Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What you trying to point out ? I’m sure all walks of life and all types have been done for sexual abuse on children . If you really think trans people have never sexually abused anyone you are deluded . I didn’t say trans people have never done this. My point is that it’s the drag queens and transgenders who are continually persecuted and maligned and stereotyped as being deviants when the majority of time it’s, again, categories of trusted so-called ordinary people, generally held up as pillars of the community, who are committing these acts. Yet no persecution, no movements of concerned parents marching against them, no government action against them, no nothing. Nothing to see here, blame it on the freaks Edited July 4 by Nor-Cal Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The big problem, again, is social media. It drums people up into a frenzy and showcases the worst of whatever agenda they want to push. I do feel that young children are being 'guided' in a certain way towards this new 'movement' - but schools shouldn't be getting involved in teaching it. People can be whatever they want to be, I really couldn't care any less. If you're happy, great. I'm happy for you. When it starts being forced down your throat, when you tread on eggshells worrying you'll offend someone, when genuine mistakes are met with aggression and abuse, when children are medically attended to because parents give consent for them to have hormones blocked at an early age - thats when I have issues. Pride has turned into a monster because of this 'wokeness' and a lot of people are beginning to resent it (even Gay/Lesbian people I know don't like what it's become) - Social media is the main driver behind this for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 11 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: The big problem, again, is social media. It drums people up into a frenzy and showcases the worst of whatever agenda they want to push. I do feel that young children are being 'guided' in a certain way towards this new 'movement' - but schools shouldn't be getting involved in teaching it. People can be whatever they want to be, I really couldn't care any less. If you're happy, great. I'm happy for you. When it starts being forced down your throat, when you tread on eggshells worrying you'll offend someone, when genuine mistakes are met with aggression and abuse, when children are medically attended to because parents give consent for them to have hormones blocked at an early age - thats when I have issues. Pride has turned into a monster because of this 'wokeness' and a lot of people are beginning to resent it (even Gay/Lesbian people I know don't like what it's become) - Social media is the main driver behind this for sure. There is no movement other than people emphasising the bit you said here that I bolded. The idea that there's an ideology (not what you said) or a movement is just nonsense imo. This idea about walking on egg shells and things being shoved down people's throats is a mountain out of a molehill. Sure there are individual cases people could pick out, but I don't think there's any more insanity here than in any other walk of life. People who have a problem with pride, imo again, have a problem with their echo chambers and the kind of ways non-problematic things are misrepresented, exaggerated, and twisted for whatever reason (and I think there are plenty of reasons why this happens, plenty of them innocent ones like, yeah, people not being able to filter the internet and taking the most extreme examples of whatever the topic is as the defining characteristic of the wider topic). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 What exactly is "forcing it down your throat" (KW) when it comes to discussions around the trans community? I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: What exactly is "forcing it down your throat" (KW) when it comes to discussions around the trans community? I don't understand. Sorry I'm not the best at articulating my thoughts. I'm talking about the 0-60 in 2 seconds that it all seems to have come about - It's gone from being a personal thing, quietly talked about - to this massive, I will say movement - and I still mainain social media is the main cause for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Dante_Lockhart said: I do feel that young children are being 'guided' in a certain way towards this new 'movement' - but schools shouldn't be getting involved in teaching it. I don't really get what you mean by "teaching it". Do you think kids go to school and have 9am - Maths, 10am - Geography then come back after lunch for an hour of Transgender Studies? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Sorry I'm not the best at articulating my thoughts. I'm talking about the 0-60 in 2 seconds that it all seems to have come about - It's gone from being a personal thing, quietly talked about - to this massive, I will say movement - and I still mainain social media is the main cause for this. It’s a movement that often has hostile energy in response to oppression and bigotry. It’s not always helpful but I absolutely respect where it comes from and understand the anger. Ultimately it’s on the rest of us to change our behaviour - the blame doesn’t lie with the victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The bile spat out by the likes of Badenoch and picked up and repeated in the desperate hunt for votes by little Rishi will take a long time to calm down. I fear the gammon party will now pick up the baton and repeat all the woke conspiracy bullshit for their core support down whetherspoons to then take as fact, that they are under attack from some shadowy international trans illuminati. There is a calm and sensible way to address the issue, with respect for the absolute tiny number of individuals involved. It’s got nothing to do with toilets or rapists, that’s just basic incoherent bullshit scaremongering that doesn’t stand up to a moment’s scrutiny. The issue gets too much bandwidth from populist politicians and click bait social media and angry old world newspapers. All of which, you are absolutely allowed to either ignore, or repeat without thought. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: The bile spat out by the likes of Badenoch and picked up and repeated in the desperate hunt for votes by little Rishi will take a long time to calm down. I fear the gammon party will now pick up the baton and repeat all the woke conspiracy bullshit for their core support down whetherspoons to then take as fact, that they are under attack from some shadowy international trans illuminati. There is a calm and sensible way to address the issue, with respect for the absolute tiny number of individuals involved. It’s got nothing to do with toilets or rapists, that’s just basic incoherent bullshit scaremongering that doesn’t stand up to a moment’s scrutiny. The issue gets too much bandwidth from populist politicians and click bait social media and angry old world newspapers. All of which, you are absolutely allowed to either ignore, or repeat without thought. I think what you meant to say was "George Soros is paying for Islamist drag queens to brainwash your children about net zero, and the woke civil service blob is encouraging it" Edited July 5 by one_ian_taylor 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said: I think what you meant to say was "George Soros is paying for Islamist drag queens to brainwash your children about net zero, and the woke civil service blob is encouraging it" You missed the bit about microchips in vaccines, but yeah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 19 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Sorry I'm not the best at articulating my thoughts. I'm talking about the 0-60 in 2 seconds that it all seems to have come about - It's gone from being a personal thing, quietly talked about - to this massive, I will say movement - and I still mainain social media is the main cause for this. I'd blame the right wing rags who use it as a wedge issue and go on and on about it constantly. They define the discourse in the UK. If the likes of the Telegraph/Sun/Mail/Express/Tories/Reforms didn't go on about it Trans people would be left in peace and nobody would think it's an issue. Just look at Brexit and how nobody gave a damn about the EU until that clutch of demagogues hammered the country over the head with their messaging. They are the ones banging people over the heads, and they are the ones shoving the issue down people's throats. Billions upon billions of whatever currency are put into marketing worldwide because it makes a difference. It's the same here. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Rolta said: There is no movement other than people emphasising the bit you said here that I bolded. The idea that there's an ideology (not what you said) or a movement is just nonsense imo. This idea about walking on egg shells and things being shoved down people's throats is a mountain out of a molehill. Sure there are individual cases people could pick out, but I don't think there's any more insanity here than in any other walk of life. People who have a problem with pride, imo again, have a problem with their echo chambers and the kind of ways non-problematic things are misrepresented, exaggerated, and twisted for whatever reason (and I think there are plenty of reasons why this happens, plenty of them innocent ones like, yeah, people not being able to filter the internet and taking the most extreme examples of whatever the topic is as the defining characteristic of the wider topic). I don't think this is really true. It could be the stance for the majority of people who are trans (I only know a couple so can't speak broadly), but there's certainly plenty of trans activists who are demanding things that affect wider society. I'm not sure how that can be considered anything other than an ideology or a movement? The debate around the medical evidence for and against giving puberty blockers to children is a good example of it. This is a much wider discussion than simply "should people be allowed to be trans?" that touches on a lot of other sensitive issues, but it certainly feels to me views on that topic are based much more heavily on political views than they are on medical evidence. Let's face it, in any other scenario giving potentially dangerous drugs to children who aren't old enough to give informed consent would be a massive scandal, right? Even for a serious medical condition. I think there's definitely more insanity on this topic than others, and it's because it's a major political battleground imo. Hopefully the issue can be dealt with by calmer heads once attention moves to something else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: I don't think this is really true. It could be the stance for the majority of people who are trans (I only know a couple so can't speak broadly), but there's certainly plenty of trans activists who are demanding things that affect wider society. I'm not sure how that can be considered anything other than an ideology or a movement? The debate around the medical evidence for and against giving puberty blockers to children is a good example of it. This is a much wider discussion than simply "should people be allowed to be trans?" that touches on a lot of other sensitive issues, but it certainly feels to me views on that topic are based much more heavily on political views than they are on medical evidence. Let's face it, in any other scenario giving potentially dangerous drugs to children who aren't old enough to give informed consent would be a massive scandal, right? Even for a serious medical condition. I think there's definitely more insanity on this topic than others, and it's because it's a major political battleground imo. Hopefully the issue can be dealt with by calmer heads once attention moves to something else. The irony of comments like these, is that the sentence I've highlighted is 100% correct for the exact opposite reason the rest of the comment implies. There is tonnes of evidence supporting Transpeople and the validity of their existence and demonstrating that gender and sex are far more complicated than the traditional binary people claim is "basic biology". And that's evidence from actual genetecists, neurobiologists and endocrinologists, not random far right grifters and self important children's authors. And this is precisely the reason there tends to be "aggression" from Trans people and their allies on this subject, because it's **** exhausting having to constantly defend their right to exist and the validity of that existence from people who don't even bother to do the most cursory investigation into what the actual science says about the subject. I linked this blog which links (linked? some of them look broken now) to tonnes of papers on the subject a few years ago and I highly suggest that anyone who is appealing to scientific evidence in good faith read it and others like it, I hope it changes your mind. https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/ Quote Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia Actual research shows that sex is anything but binary Antiscientific sentiment bombards our politics, or so says the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW). Chief among these antiscientific sentiments, the IDW cites the rising visibility of transgender civil rights demands. To the IDW, trans people and their advocates are destroying the pillars of our society with such free-speech–suppressing, postmodern concepts as: “trans women are women,” “gender-neutral pronouns,” or “there are more than two genders.” Asserting “basic biology” will not be ignored, the IDW proclaims. “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” The irony in all this is that these “protectors of enlightenment” are guilty of the very behavior this phrase derides. Though often dismissed as just a fringe internet movement, they espouse unscientific claims that have infected our politics and culture. Especially alarming is that these “intellectual” assertions are used by nonscientists to claim a scientific basis for the dehumanization of trans people. The real world consequences are stacking up: the trans military ban, bathroom bills, and removal of workplace and medical discrimination protections, a 41-51 percent suicide attempt rate and targeted fatal violence . It’s not just internet trolling anymore. Contrary to popular belief, scientific research helps us better understand the unique and real transgender experience. Specifically, through three subjects: (1) genetics, (2) neurobiology and (3) endocrinology. So, hold onto your parts, whatever they may be. It’s time for “the talk.” I think I'm just going to hide this topic, it boils my blood whenever I come in here. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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