bobzy Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: The debate around the medical evidence for and against giving puberty blockers to children is a good example of it. I didn't think this was legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I don’t think it’s people hating on transgender, well some will . I just think it’s more valid concern . I don’t hate anyone whatever you are.if I get on with you great. I’m also willing for people to put forward their opinions the other way to mine . We can’t all agree that’s just stupid . As long as people are being respectful whatever their opinion so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 8 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said: The irony of comments like these, is that the sentence I've highlighted is 100% correct for the exact opposite reason the rest of the comment implies. There is tonnes of evidence supporting Transpeople and the validity of their existence and demonstrating that gender and sex are far more complicated than the traditional binary people claim is "basic biology". And that's evidence from actual genetecists, neurobiologists and endocrinologists, not random far right grifters and self important children's authors. And this is precisely the reason there tends to be "aggression" from Trans people and their allies on this subject, because it's **** exhausting having to constantly defend their right to exist and the validity of that existence from people who don't even bother to do the most cursory investigation into what the actual science says about the subject. I linked this blog which links (linked? some of them look broken now) to tonnes of papers on the subject a few years ago and I highly suggest that anyone who is appealing to scientific evidence in good faith read it and others like it, I hope it changes your mind. https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/ I think I'm just going to hide this topic, it boils my blood whenever I come in here. Not sure why people need to waste energy on it to be honest. I'm not transphobic at all, just not at all intersted who wants to be what, an why they wanna be it. I mean, I'm not interested in your sexual preference am I'm sure your not interested in mine. So why do we have to be bothered about some dude who now wants female bits. An why do we have to celebrate it, with a special day. Just get on with it whatever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: I didn't think this was legal? It varies across the world. It's still considered a great idea in the US, whereas the UK recently banned them after the Cass review found there was insufficient evidence to conclude that giving them to children was safe (following on from similar studies in the Scandinavian countries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 22 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Not sure why people need to waste energy on it to be honest. I'm not transphobic at all, just not at all intersted who wants to be what, an why they wanna be it. I mean, I'm not interested in your sexual preference am I'm sure your not interested in mine. So why do we have to be bothered about some dude who now wants female bits. An why do we have to celebrate it, with a special day. Just get on with it whatever. Because, sadly, people can't do this. So it needs to be celebrated and brought into societal norm so that a load of the stigmatism (hopefully) goes away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Not sure why people need to waste energy on it to be honest. I'm not transphobic at all, just not at all intersted who wants to be what, an why they wanna be it. I mean, I'm not interested in your sexual preference am I'm sure your not interested in mine. So why do we have to be bothered about some dude who now wants female bits. An why do we have to celebrate it, with a special day. Just get on with it whatever. Absolutely - but the people who seem to be "wasting energy" on it tend to be the "BAN SCHOOLS FROM TEACHING CHILDREN ABOUT THIS SICK FILTH!!" types. Y'know, rather than just letting people be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: A why do we have to celebrate it, with a special day. Just get on with it whatever. Hold on, when were you forced to celebrate someone else's sexuality. Sounds pretty wild that. How did they do it? Hold a gun to your head? Force you to walk round town butt naked with your ring piece pointing at the sun? How? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Because, sadly, people can't do this. So it needs to be celebrated and brought into societal norm so that a load of the stigmatism (hopefully) goes away. People who hate will hate. Making it more prevelent with a celebration, believe, makes the haters hate more, an some people who aren't interested start to hate. It certainly don't make them be more understanding of peoples sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: It varies across the world. It's still considered a great idea in the US, whereas the UK recently banned them after the Cass review found there was insufficient evidence to conclude that giving them to children was safe (following on from similar studies in the Scandinavian countries). The US give kids anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 33 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said: The irony of comments like these, is that the sentence I've highlighted is 100% correct for the exact opposite reason the rest of the comment implies. There is tonnes of evidence supporting Transpeople and the validity of their existence and demonstrating that gender and sex are far more complicated than the traditional binary people claim is "basic biology". And that's evidence from actual genetecists, neurobiologists and endocrinologists, not random far right grifters and self important children's authors. And this is precisely the reason there tends to be "aggression" from Trans people and their allies on this subject, because it's **** exhausting having to constantly defend their right to exist and the validity of that existence from people who don't even bother to do the most cursory investigation into what the actual science says about the subject. I linked this blog which links (linked? some of them look broken now) to tonnes of papers on the subject a few years ago and I highly suggest that anyone who is appealing to scientific evidence in good faith read it and others like it, I hope it changes your mind. https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/ I think I'm just going to hide this topic, it boils my blood whenever I come in here. That just proves my point, doesn't it? I'm generally supportive of trans people. I know two, and I employ one. I'm not supportive of specifically giving children potentially dangerous drugs when there's insufficient evidence of their safety. The Cass review and the other studies preceeding are very much "actual science" that suggest we shouldn't be giving those drugs to children. You've read that and appear to be accusing me of saying trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist, and implying that I'm not posting in good faith. This is my exact point - you can't have a sensible conversation about even a minor aspect of transgenderism without someone accusing you of being a transphobe. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Hold on, when were you forced to celebrate someone else's sexuality. Sounds pretty wild that. How did they do it? Hold a gun to your head? Force you to walk round town butt naked with your ring piece pointing at the sun? How? Okay just for you, cause I know how pedandic you can be. Why does it need a celebration? Shall we celebrate hetrosexualality too. Yes, lets all walk down the street waving flags and holding our female partners hands and pushing our prams. "Look at me, I'm straight!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: People who hate will hate. Making it more prevelent with a celebration, believe, makes the haters hate more, an some people who aren't interested start to hate. It certainly don't make them be more understanding of peoples sexuality. That’s the haters problem though, no one else's 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Okay just for you, cause I know how pedandic you can be. Why does it need a celebration? Shall we celebrate hetrosexualality too. Yes, lets all walk down the street waving flags and holding our female partners hands and pushing our prams. "Look at me, I'm straight!" Why can’t people celebrate something about themselves is the pertinent question not why does it need a celebration doh! Literally no one is stopping you celebrating your straightness, off you go and watch how literally no-one cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: People who hate will hate. Making it more prevelent with a celebration, believe, makes the haters hate more, an some people who aren't interested start to hate. It certainly don't make them be more understanding of peoples sexuality. This is just incorrect - unless by saying "believe", that they are views you hold. Take pride (gay pride as it was) as an example. Started as a demonstration against extreme repression of the gay community (I think in the States? might be wrong). Now, it's a celebrated march/festival/booze up - whatever is going on! - not only by that community, but absolutely everyone (apart from the obvious rocket polishers). Homosexuality is, largely, just a part of normal life because it's been massively normalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: That just proves my point, doesn't it? I'm generally supportive of trans people. I know two, and I employ one. I'm not supportive of specifically giving children potentially dangerous drugs when there's insufficient evidence of their safety. The Cass review and the other studies preceeding are very much "actual science" that suggest we shouldn't be giving those drugs to children. You've read that and appear to be accusing me of saying trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist, and implying that I'm not posting in good faith. This is my exact point - you can't have a sensible conversation about even a minor aspect of transgenderism without someone accusing you of being a transphobe. What do you mean 'supportive' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Okay just for you, cause I know how pedandic you can be. Why does it need a celebration? Shall we celebrate hetrosexualality too. Yes, lets all walk down the street waving flags and holding our female partners hands and pushing our prams. "Look at me, I'm straight!" Why does this bother you? My mother has this same weird hang up about pride marches etc. I can’t follow what the big deal is. Edited July 5 by LondonLax 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, LondonLax said: Why does this bother you? Who said it does? The question was, "why do we need to celebrate it". An it was answered, which I kinda agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I find it’s the same with women and black people, less of the haters could hate them if only they’d be less obvious on our streets. Why can’t they just quietly conform to some societal norms I don’t actually question or understand? They bring it on themselves. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Who said it does? The question was, "why do we need to celebrate it". An it was answered, which I kinda agree with. I think there is a history to it as well though. It is within living memory that people were beaten up for being gay in our society. These marches started out as a defiance and a way to build solidarity amongst a marginalised community. The internet has made it much better these days if you are a minority and want to connect with like minded people but I can imagine an actual meet up and parade is probably pretty cathartic and life affirming in a way that an online chat group is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nor-Cal Villan Posted July 5 Popular Post Share Posted July 5 5 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said: The big problem, again, is social media. It drums people up into a frenzy and showcases the worst of whatever agenda they want to push. I do feel that young children are being 'guided' in a certain way towards this new 'movement' - but schools shouldn't be getting involved in teaching it. People can be whatever they want to be, I really couldn't care any less. If you're happy, great. I'm happy for you. When it starts being forced down your throat, when you tread on eggshells worrying you'll offend someone, when genuine mistakes are met with aggression and abuse, when children are medically attended to because parents give consent for them to have hormones blocked at an early age - thats when I have issues. Pride has turned into a monster because of this 'wokeness' and a lot of people are beginning to resent it (even Gay/Lesbian people I know don't like what it's become) - Social media is the main driver behind this for sure. “Forced down throat” and “woke/wokeness” are what gamblers call a tell 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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