The AVFC FFP thread

[The Fun Factory]

It's like any other line of business with people with money- you hire expensive clever people to find possible borderline legal ways to avoid losing out. If we didn't do this it will put us in a disadvantage

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, thabucks said:

Whats immoral about it ? It’s within the rules of the game - it’s an available option to all clubs should they wish to do so. It’s not a work around it was a transfer of an asset at fair market value in our instance. 

I seriously cannot believe you care enough about it that you’d rather we sold a key player or two just so we can buy out ground back from our owners. I hope we sell BMH and anything else we can before selling a player we’d prefer to keep. 
 

 

Just because its in the rules doesnt mean its not immoral

[MaVilla]

54 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Just because its in the rules doesnt mean its not immoral

if we want morality, we are probably following the wrong sport tbh.

that horse well and truly bolted a long time ago.

[Pongo Waring]

No one's got a monkey's if Villa are in trouble or not lets be honest. 

[Zatman]

54 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

if we want morality, we are probably following the wrong sport tbh.

that horse well and truly bolted a long time ago.

Football is a sport though not a business. I get what you are saying but people grew up watching football for integrity and not financial management etc.

[Hank Scorpio]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Just because its in the rules doesnt mean its not immoral

Yeah because all the other teams we are trying to be better than have proven to have morals haven't they.

If we don't do the same we will never compete. 

And don't forget we already exploited tye stadium loophole to stay in business.

We are hardly clean already as a club.

[supermon]

Can someone explain how if Dougie leaves for player swap or two player swap; how does that ease FFP/PSR? Do we not have to sell for money rather than player swaps?

[Czarnikjak]

2 minutes ago, supermon said:

Can someone explain how if Dougie leaves for player swap or two player swap; how does that ease FFP/PSR? Do we not have to sell for money rather than player swaps?

This wouldn't be a swap. Separate transfers where little actual cash changes hands. But PSR doesn't look at cash changing hands, it looks at profit on the sale. And both sides would book big profits on their accounts.

Edited June 10 by Czarnikjak

[CarryOnVilla]

1 minute ago, supermon said:

Can someone explain how if Dougie leaves for player swap or two player swap; how does that ease FFP/PSR? Do we not have to sell for money rather than player swaps?

It’s not a swap. It’s 3 separate purchases. 1 big one for Doug, and 2 smaller ones for the juve guys 

[paul514]

3 hours ago, supermon said:

Can someone explain how if Dougie leaves for player swap or two player swap; how does that ease FFP/PSR? Do we not have to sell for money rather than player swaps?

My understanding is that the players have a value listed in the deal and therefore profits or losses can be booked.

[imavillan]

 

Article in today's FT

 

Aston Villa owner calls for overhaul of Premier League spending rules

Billionaire Nassef Sawiris lambasts opaque penalties faced by clubs for breaches and says system cements status quo

The billionaire owner of Aston Villa has called for an overhaul of the Premier League’s rule book on spending, complaining that the current system had turned English football into a “financial game”.
Nassef Sawiris, Egypt’s richest man, said existing regulations governing what clubs can spend were preventing ambitious owners from challenging the established elite, and the system of penalties for breaking the rules lacked transparency.
Sawiris, who owns Birmingham team Aston Villa alongside US private equity billionaire Wes Edens, also described the Premier League’s so-called profit and sustainability rules as “anti-competitive”, and said he was seeking legal advice on whether to lodge a formal complaint against them.

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, imavillan said:

 

Article in today's FT

 

Aston Villa owner calls for overhaul of Premier League spending rules

Billionaire Nassef Sawiris lambasts opaque penalties faced by clubs for breaches and says system cements status quo

The billionaire owner of Aston Villa has called for an overhaul of the Premier League’s rule book on spending, complaining that the current system had turned English football into a “financial game”.
Nassef Sawiris, Egypt’s richest man, said existing regulations governing what clubs can spend were preventing ambitious owners from challenging the established elite, and the system of penalties for breaking the rules lacked transparency.
Sawiris, who owns Birmingham team Aston Villa alongside US private equity billionaire Wes Edens, also described the Premier League’s so-called profit and sustainability rules as “anti-competitive”, and said he was seeking legal advice on whether to lodge a formal complaint against them.

He's not wrong. The rules have many flaws. Especially is the accounting for players. A change so a players sale profit/loss is spread over 3 years (I if we sold player for 30m profit on book value it would go into the accounts as +10m each year for 3 years). It would resolve some of the incentives now in the game for lots of players trading. Especially of young players. 

Additionally we need to bridge the gap from the top teams to the bottom ones. I'm not sure how though.

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

He’s right. I wonder if it’s a coincidence that Nassef is bringing a legal case at the same time as City, albeit on a related issue, especially considering his relationship with their Chairman. I would not be surprised if Newcastle follow suit now.

[Wainy316]

I don't get the rationale in nearly all the other teams voting against our motion last week.

Do we know who the other team was that voted with us?

[MarkLillis]

14 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

This wouldn't be a swap. Separate transfers where little actual cash changes hands. But PSR doesn't look at cash changing hands, it looks at profit on the sale. And both sides would book big profits on their accounts.

I think there are a lot of fans out there that cant process this bit.

Villa must sell! Villa are in trouble.........you must sell before June the 30th......you are skint!

Clearly we are not skint or in trouble.

PSR is not about the money itself its about the illusion of self sustainability.

[Demitri_C]

Can i ask how selling luiz for two plays and some cash how that helps with FFP as we are not making any profit on him?

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Can i ask how selling luiz for two plays and some cash how that helps with FFP as we are not making any profit on him?

His sale goes down as a £60m one, for example. It's own transaction, basically.

[Demitri_C]

Just now, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

His sale goes down as a £60m one, for example. It's own transaction, basically.

Thanks

So they value thw players as x amount even though we are not getting cash the package would be 60m in total making a profit of 45m ?

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Thanks

So they value thw players as x amount even though we are not getting cash the package would be 60m in total making a profit of 45m ?

Pretty sure his "book value" is zero, so ultimately pure profit, or very close to that.

Edited June 11 by PaulMcGrath_5

[KentVillan]

On 09/06/2024 at 23:15, Pongo Waring said:

No one's got a monkey's if Villa are in trouble or not lets be honest. 

There are a fair few clues, though - the requested rule changes, the NS interview in today’s FT, etc. It’s not been conjured up out of thin air.

What’s so frustrating is it doesn’t really appear that the club is in any financial difficulty in the ordinary real-world economic sense. Just in this made up version of economics that the Sky 6 came up with to “protect” the other clubs.

And unlike the oil clubs, we can’t break the rules and then get our sheikh to beg the prime minister for special exemptions for reasons of national security.