Jareth Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Heck's targets are to increase revenue by £50 mill a season - he does that for three or more seasons and we are getting closer to the bigger earners. My feeling is that we have a ruse or two up our sleeve yet to make Heck exceed his targets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said: I am sure success on the pitch will make us more commercially attractive. We are more 'relevant' now than at any point since 2010 and arguably the mid 90s. Yeah it is a chicken and egg situation. I think we need to have a sustained run of being competitive in the top 4-6 spots in the PL, and repeatedly qualifying for the big european competitions, and maybe even win some silverware along the way before we can fully kick on as a commerically attractive partner for companies to pay big money to align with. We have done fantastically over the last 18 months to disrupt and force our way into the top 6 discussion, but we are still seen as the new guys on the block, the plucky pretender to the throne. The likes of Man Utd and Chelsea will be expected to go back past us in the next 12-24 months. Those clubs have everything set up to aide them in making that happen, we need Unai and the club to keep performing minor miracles to keep us up there and above those teams. I have full trust in our management team now, and feel we do have a chance again at least which is something I wouldn't have said much if at all over the last 15 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: In terms of incomes for Premier League clubs though, matchday revenues are like a side hustle - they're 20% - it matters, but it's not going to make the big difference. If you closed Anfield for the season, Liverpool would still make almost double the money we do. I wish people would acknowledge this properly. 20% is kind as well. For us it's under 10%. Doubt other clubs reach 20%. 5 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Commercial is our only real hope and we will never bridge the gap there only try close it. Give up then. Why follow Villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 9 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Why do people argue, then, that closing our smallest stand can't be done for redevelopment because we need bums on those 6,000 seats? I have never bought that whereas I do buy into the idea that a bigger stand with better offerings would get me to a few games a season and I would spend my whole day there eating and drinking pre and post match. So in the club's perspevtive there woild be a small hit for a bigger gain long term Not sure how true this is but I was told the summer renovation works cost the club over £30mill partly down to wanting to do 6 months plus of working in less than 3 months. Add to that the training ground improvements which I’ve no idea of cost then that £100mill Altarios money quickly dwindles and the whole stadium needed works not just one stand. I can arguments for and against why they didn’t drop £100mill plus on the north stand whilst the remaining stands needed massive expenditure also. Add in The Warehouse project and other works and you’re looking at £200mill plus which even for billionaires is a huge sum to invest at once. We’re debt free and have the right people now onboard and I’m sure they’ll look at stadium expansion again in a few seasons once they’ve maximised profit from all four stands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 13 minutes ago, thabucks said: Not sure how true this is but I was told the summer renovation works cost the club over £30mill partly down to wanting to do 6 months plus of working in less than 3 months. Add to that the training ground improvements which I’ve no idea of cost then that £100mill Altarios money quickly dwindles and the whole stadium needed works not just one stand. I can arguments for and against why they didn’t drop £100mill plus on the north stand whilst the remaining stands needed massive expenditure also. Add in The Warehouse project and other works and you’re looking at £200mill plus which even for billionaires is a huge sum to invest at once. We’re debt free and have the right people now onboard and I’m sure they’ll look at stadium expansion again in a few seasons once they’ve maximised profit from all four stands I'm very much in the new stadium makes more sense camp. Possible that's too much for the owners to go for, but I think the returns financially and on the pitch would be long lasting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 11 minutes ago, tinker said: By who? I have seen nothing but chaos at both clubs and to think the same owners /decision makers will suddenly grow some brains is very hopeful at the least. Look back before Fergie and Manure were big spending failures and Chelsea were nothing and look to be going back there, they had £2bn to spend when they got took over and they have burnt through that at a rate of knots. The fans of those teams and sections of the press are all expecting that, a fair few predictions in the press were that those teams would finish above us this season and that we would struggle with the additional matches in the Champions League. Whether the season pans out like that nobody knows at the moment. The main point I am trying to make is that those teams have the major advantage with PSR / FFP rules that they can seemingly keep making the mistakes but can still outspend us thanks to their sponsorship deals they have set up over their succesul years. They won't keep making the same mistakes, it would be very naive to think they won't eventually stumble across the right formula by learning from their mistakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Jareth said: Heck's targets are to increase revenue by £50 mill a season - he does that for three or more seasons and we are getting closer to the bigger earners. My feeling is that we have a ruse or two up our sleeve yet to make Heck exceed his targets. The elephant in the room is that Aston Villa has a brand problem globally. Yes, as supporters, we know about the history, but potential new fans don't really care about that when selecting a club to follow. They either want to follow a club that wins trophies or one that is seen as 'cool'. Most people outside the club see Aston Villa as irrelevant, similar to the other 13-14 in the PL (Wolves, Everton etc). If heck strongly targeted celebrities & influencers (as well as utilise our new links to Commcast) to get our club more exposure and following, I think that revenue target would be easily achievable. Look at Wrexham, they have 1.3m social media followers in league 1, compared to 50-100k for the others. Those followers translate to revenue, either directly or through indirectly via increased advertising. This approach isn't commonplace in football at the moment so it's an real opportunity to get ahead of the others before they start doing it. Edited September 4 by Made In Aston 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted September 4 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4 13 minutes ago, NeilS said: The fans of those teams and sections of the press are all expecting that, a fair few predictions in the press were that those teams would finish above us this season and that we would struggle with the additional matches in the Champions League. Whether the season pans out like that nobody knows at the moment. The main point I am trying to make is that those teams have the major advantage with PSR / FFP rules that they can seemingly keep making the mistakes but can still outspend us thanks to their sponsorship deals they have set up over their succesul years. They won't keep making the same mistakes, it would be very naive to think they won't eventually stumble across the right formula by learning from their mistakes. You don't stumble on success, we are a perfect example of how that just doesn't happen, won the league when? Do you think their sponsorship deals will continue without success? I don't, why would they, if they can get a champions league team with some great English players in it, a big international profile (its coming, kit launch figures) and for less money. Sponsors aren't fans, there business led and less money for more success and less chaos makes good business sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 3 minutes ago, tinker said: You don't stumble on success, we are a perfect example of how that just doesn't happen, won the league when? Do you think their sponsorship deals will continue without success? I don't, why would they, if they can get a champions league team with some great English players in it, a big international profile (its coming, kit launch figures) and for less money. Sponsors aren't fans, there business led and less money for more success and less chaos makes good business sense. At some point Man Utd will sort out their squad issues, they have appointed Dan Ashworth who is quite highly rated in the game, it won't be overnight but they could already be putting blocks in place for improvement. They are in a mess at this moment in time, but it would be mad to think they are done and gone forever. I think they will be back challenging in the next few years with some good squad building, see Dan Ashworth appointment. A good managerial/coach appointment and things can turn around even faster, look at us and Unai for example. Companies will sponsor teams that give their brand the best visibility, and sadly we are definitely still some way behind those teams at this moment in time. To put this in perspective, we have 11 million followers on social media platforms, Man Utd have 207 million followers and Chelsea 136 million. Now, my original point was that we will need to sustain some success at the top of the PL and qualify regularly for Europe and maybe win a trophy or two to close that gap and build that level of following at home and abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 12 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: The elephant in the room is that Aston Villa has a brand problem globally. Yes, as supporters, we know about the history, but potential new fans don't really care about that when selecting a club to follow. They either want to follow a club that wins trophies or one that is seen as 'cool'. Most people outside the club see Aston Villa as irrelevant, similar to the other 13-14 in the PL (Wolves, Everton etc). If heck strongly targeted celebrities & influencers (as well as utilise our new links to Commcast) to get our club more exposure and following, I think that revenue target would be easily achievable. Look at Wrexham, they have 1.3m social media followers in league 1, compared to 50-100k for the others. Those followers translate to revenue, either directly or through indirectly via increased advertising. This approach isn't commonplace in football at the moment so it's a real opportunity to get ahead of the others before they start doing it. This is the new way to market ourselves. Make waves on social media. Reach new people in new places. As things stand, there’s no extra money coming from the existing fans, a lot are already feeling the stretch with price increases. So the club needs a new audience, with new money. However, that takes some careful brand building. We start to change our marketing identity too much and existing fans will feel alienated. So our marketing people have a headscratch to do. How to keep existing fans happy and make new fans fall in love with us? However there is signs that there is a way. The kit launch video shows something distinctive Villa and unlike other clubs, “We have a laugh” we have fun doing what we do, Club, fans and players. Other clubs are moody and serious and focused on “being winners” Villa are already winners because we have fun. Having fun is the spirit of football and Villa should honour that in its brand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Heck's targets are to increase revenue by £50 mill a season - he does that for three or more seasons and we are getting closer to the bigger earners. My feeling is that we have a ruse or two up our sleeve yet to make Heck exceed his targets. Not really. While we increase revenue by £50m a season, the big 6 will be increasing revenue by £100m a season. One of the reasons everyone is looking at new stadiums or expanding existing stadiums - it basically gives you an extra £20-40m per season forever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said: This is the new way to market ourselves. Make waves on social media. Reach new people in new places. As things stand, there’s no extra money coming from the existing fans, a lot are already feeling the stretch with price increases. So the club needs a new audience, with new money. However, that takes some careful brand building. We start to change our marketing identity too much and existing fans will feel alienated. So our marketing people have a headscratch to do. How to keep existing fans happy and make new fans fall in love with us? However there is signs that there is a way. The kit launch video shows something distinctive Villa and unlike other clubs, “We have a laugh” we have fun doing what we do, Club, fans and players. Other clubs are moody and serious and focused on “being winners” Villa are already winners because we have fun. Having fun is the spirit of football and Villa should honour that in its brand. It would certainly be a better way to do things than charging loyal fans astronomical amounts for season and matchday tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Just now, Made In Aston said: It would certainly be a better way to do things than charging loyal fans astronomical amounts for season and matchday tickets. To get revenue to a level where they need/want it they'll have to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 10 minutes ago, villa89 said: To get revenue to a level where they need/want it they'll have to do both. They don't though. Matchday revenue is only a small proportion of the total. The club could quite easily make it more affordable and create a better atmosphere without it affecting the overall revenue targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 5 hours ago, The_Steve said: I think communication has been an issue for many years, but I fully welcome their honesty on the topic because it exposes the deep faults in the current rules and helps us as fans understand why some decisions are made. And this is something that Heck seems to fail to understand. Good honest communication, explaining a decision so that we understand why things are being done, or not in some cases, goes a long way with most people. If we are treated like adults & given honest reasons for decisions, the majority of the negativity towards someone like Heck would be a lot lower. In my humble opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 27 minutes ago, Andy_10 said: And this is something that Heck seems to fail to understand. Good honest communication, explaining a decision so that we understand why things are being done, or not in some cases, goes a long way with most people. If we are treated like adults & given honest reasons for decisions, the majority of the negativity towards someone like Heck would be a lot lower. In my humble opinion. I agree, I think Heck really lets it down with poor communication, and how they take a sledgehammer to a walnut in dealing with criticism. They don’t understand that fans do matter and taking decisions without oversight or giving sufficient information about why the stand redevelopment gives an impression that they don’t care - especially when ticket prices are again rising and rising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 10 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: That's my point. You can be a crappy little club with no major success and still get a massive following with the right marketing. If Wrexham can achieve a large global following in league 1, think about what we could do. Obviously we wouldn't get some Hollywood actor investing, but could easily raise our profile in the media through the Commcast linkup and advertising, as well as socials through partnerships with celebrities. Companies like Beats and Gymshark are two recent examples of heavily utilising this route and achieving massive success off the back of it. We literally have the future King of England as a fan. Most of the world love the younger royals. Massive marketing opportunity as the 'royal club'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 3 hours ago, Made In Aston said: They don't though. Matchday revenue is only a small proportion of the total. The club could quite easily make it more affordable and create a better atmosphere without it affecting the overall revenue targets. It’s still a proportion though and as we were close to being docked 10points for breaching the limit every penny they can rinse and maximise will be done to avoid that happening again as the screws turn because of the SCR reducing year on year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceemo Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) Just an illustration about where we are in comparison to some other clubs with regards revenue amidst the Champions League ticket prices anger: Last released full Accounts at the end of 22/23 season from the Swiss Ramble Manchester City: Total Revenue - £712.8 million £71.9m (10.1%) from matchday £299.4m broadcasting £341.4m commercial Won the Champions League + Premier League + FA Cup that season. Manchester United: Total Revenue - £648.4 million £136.4m (21%) from matchday £209.1m broadcasting £302m commercial Finished 3rd in the Premier League, Won League Cup + Got to Quarter-Finals of Europa League that season. Liverpool: Total Revenue - £593.8 million £79.8m (13.4%) from matchday £241.6m broadcasting £272.5m commercial Finished 5th in the Premier League and Got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League that season. Tottenham: Total Revenue - £549.6 million £117.6m (21.4%) from matchday £204.3m broadcasting £227.8m commercial Finished 8th in the Premier League and got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League that season. Chelsea: Total Revenue - £512.5 million + £101 million from sale of property (hotels) (£76.5m) and 'other operating income' ($30.6m) £76.5m (14.9%) from matchday £225.9m broadcasting £210.1m commercial Finished 12th in the Premier League and got to the Quarter-Finals of the Champions League that season. Arsenal: Total Revenue - £464.6 million £102.6m (22%) from matchday £191.2m broadcasting £169.3m commercial £1.5m on player loans Finished 2nd in the Premier League and Got to Round of 16 in the Europa League that season. Newcastle United: Total Revenue - £250.3 million £37.9m (15%) from matchday £165.5m broadcasting £46.9m commercial Finished 4th in the Premier League. West Ham: Total Revenue - £236.7 million £41m (17%) from matchday £147.6m broadcasting £48.1m commercial Finished 14th in the Premier League and won the Conference League that season Villa: Total Revenue - £217.7 million £18.8m (8.6%) from matchday £152.6m (70.1%) broadcasting £40.6m (18.65%) commercial £5.7m (2.62%) on player loans Finished 7th in the Premier League. Edited September 4 by Ceemo 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Shows how far away we are and how much ground needs to be made up - it’s sobering to see and Heck is here to close that gap. I don’t understand the argument that a few extra million in matchday revenue doesn’t have a impact as it blatantly does when paired with commercial revenue - broadcasting is largely out of our hands 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts