Czarnikjak Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: And that includes writing off Coutinho this month? This Luiz transfer has been carefully planned. Yes, £8.5m Coutinho write off is already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Czarnikjak said: This is estimation of our current psr situation by Swiss Ramble So I think he's off in a few places. Firstly other expenses rising from 66m to 76.4m is off. The total cost of Gerrard+Emery is £20m so he's estimating a rise from 46m to 76m that's incorrect. The season before in 21/22 we had Deano+Gerrard. 23/24 is first season without paying off a coaching team and buying out a new team. Secondly is the Amortisation he's factoring in only new signings and departures + releasing Coutinho in this window. He doesn't factor in the new contracts altering amortisation. Also Countinho will go into next year's accounts if we choose to. He also assumes players have a bonus for qualifying for CL and other items for wages inflation. I don't agree, I believe players have increased wages for European participation. He's also off on income from player Loans. Says assume unchanged when Coutinho alone is £7m as his wages were being covered. So this should be 10m+ He's basically looked at 22/23 accounts and worked out some simple estimates for increases and not gone into the details we have. I think when accounts come out we'll be about approx £20m short in PSR before sales we make this month. It's 24/25 where we've the big issues Edited June 17 by CVByrne 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 How bad would it have been if we didn't get CL this season? It's usual for big summer deals to happen in June during a summer tournament, what happens if the Luiz sale drags onto July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 17 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: How bad would it have been if we didn't get CL this season? It's usual for big summer deals to happen in June during a summer tournament, what happens if the Luiz sale drags onto July? It wouldn't have effected us much in terms of making our books good for this June but next June we would have been in serious trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: So I think he's off in a few places. Firstly other expenses rising from 66m to 76.4m is off. The total cost of Gerrard+Emery is £20m so he's estimating a rise from 46m to 76m that's incorrect. The season before in 21/22 we had Deano+Gerrard. 23/24 is first season without paying off a coaching team and buying out a new team. Secondly is the Amortisation he's factoring in only new signings and departures + releasing Coutinho in this window. He doesn't factor in the new contracts altering amortisation. Also Countinho will go into next year's accounts if we choose to. He also assumes players have a bonus for qualifying for CL and other items for wages inflation. I don't agree, I believe players have increased wages for European participation. He's also off on income from player Loans. Says assume unchanged when Coutinho alone is £7m as his wages were being covered. So this should be 10m+ He's basically looked at 22/23 accounts and worked out some simple estimates for increases and not gone into the details we have. I think when accounts come out we'll be about approx £20m short in PSR before sales we make this month. It's 24/25 where we've the big issues We can debate on details till cows go home but I strongly disagree with you on the wages bonus point. If qualification for Conference is worth £15m and Champions league minimum £50m there's no sense in setting the same bonus for players for both achievements. Surely clubs will pay out bigger bonuses for Champions League than Conference qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: We can debate on details till cows go home but I strongly disagree with you on the wages bonus point. If qualification for Conference is worth £15m and Champions league minimum £50m there's no sense in setting the same bonus for players for both achievements. Surely clubs will pay out bigger bonuses for Champions League than Conference qualification. It’s been reported that player contracts didn’t specify different bonus amounts depending on which competition we qualified for. A good move by the club if true … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 2 minutes ago, thabucks said: It’s been reported that player contracts didn’t specify different bonus amounts depending on which competition we qualified for. A good move by the club if true … I was about to say this. I’m sure I read somewhere that regardless of competition, bonuses were the same. Edited June 17 by PaulMcGrath_5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 5 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: We can debate on details till cows go home but I strongly disagree with you on the wages bonus point. If qualification for Conference is worth £15m and Champions league minimum £50m there's no sense in setting the same bonus for players for both achievements. Surely clubs will pay out bigger bonuses for Champions League than Conference qualification. The point is when players signed contracts did we put in bonus payments based on CL qualification. I don't believe we did. I believe we set payments based on Qualification for Europe and the additional games they need to play. We also give players bonus based on where we finish in PL for every place above 14th from what the Athletic reported. So the incentives are higher league placing=more bonus. Qualification for Europe=additional salary as players play more games. CL qualification specific bonuses are for clubs who want to essentially cut player wages if they fail to qualify for CL because the club relies on that revenue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: I was about to say this. I’m sure I read somewhere that regardless of competition, bonuses were the same. Interesting, I wasn't aware of these reports. Let's hope it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: I was about to say this. I’m sure I read somewhere that regardless of competition, bonuses were the same. Although Leon Bailey on one of his posts with his missus has her saying "CL bonus baby" or something and he replies with "big bricks". Would imply that some (if not all) contracts have a CL qualification bonus built in, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Although Leon Bailey on one of his posts with his missus has her saying "CL bonus baby" or something and he replies with "big bricks". Would imply that some (if not all) contracts have a CL qualification bonus built in, no? I think he’s being a silly boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: I think he’s being a silly boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Indeed. So you're saying it's all staged for... some reason? I mean, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Overall I agree it's not that important to get into the details. I think the higher level consensus is the same we need sales this summer for PSR both before June and after to the tune of at least 80m+ and depending on how much other things like players leaving and joining and salary levels. Plus income from next season etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: So you're saying it's all staged for... some reason? I mean, maybe. No I’m saying that video is the behaviour of a silly boy. No more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 30 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: We can debate on details till cows go home but I strongly disagree with you on the wages bonus point. If qualification for Conference is worth £15m and Champions league minimum £50m there's no sense in setting the same bonus for players for both achievements. Surely clubs will pay out bigger bonuses for Champions League than Conference qualification. My wages number had factored £20m of Gerrard and Emery in there (and rolling off) and not in additional costs. Hence yes I'm low on wages but too high on other costs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 30 minutes ago, bobzy said: Although Leon Bailey on one of his posts with his missus has her saying "CL bonus baby" or something and he replies with "big bricks". Would imply that some (if not all) contracts have a CL qualification bonus built in, no? Leon Bailey signed his current contract in February. So it's quite possible he's agreed a bonus if we qualified for CL this season added in. Paying large bonuses in the financial year prior to the season we'd get any income from the CL doesn't make sense. The additional pay is for players playing in an additional tournament and having to be away in Europe mid week, additional games etc.. The agents negotiate the increased wages on the basis of these additional games. Not the specifics of the tournament. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleVilla Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 On 06/06/2024 at 18:09, MrBlack said: They don't have any money. We could try and do this with one of our sister clubs. Sell him for however much we need to avoid breaching, then buy him back for a slight premium. I guess Luiz would have to be on board Very Chelsea-esque way of doing things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 It may be frustrating that we have owners who want to pump in more money, and not really fair that we are debt free, but can't do that. But on a general level I think it is reasonable with rules meaning that you can't spend more than you earn (or a bit more but a limit to the amount of losses). Today's fees of £100M or more and the wages being payed is just not sound imo. We have come here because of the trends of oligarchs investing laundred money, Gulf states pumping in state oil money, China giving loans to dubious businessmen of political reasons and American and other private equity funds investing in football clubs to make profit. I'm against these investment trends and I don't think it's good for football. Saudi of all states buying Newcastle and Clearlake Capital buying Chelsea was kind of the final straw. I wonder what the next trend of investment will be and dread to think what it could be. Imo it was as exciting when we paid for example £7M for Collymore or £20M for Darren Bent, as that was a big sum at the time. The normal increase in prices and inflation will of course make prices go up. But the £200M for Neymar and the £100M transfers cannot be explained by anything else than the mentioned dirty investment trends that I don't think is sound. With this my view is that I wouldn't unreservedly support us taking action against the PL for not being able to invest more. Instead we should fully support the cases against Man C and others. It seems like quite many clubs are restricted in their spending this summer, as they were in the January transfer window. I hope it means that the prices go down and I think that would be a good thing in the long run. I'm not comfortable with us taking side with Man C in any way in these aspects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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