Hobsons Choice Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 3 hours ago, nick76 said: in Germany… Weren't we neck and neck with the Bundesliga in the Uefa coefficient this year? Also they had a team in the Champions League final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 33 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Weren't we neck and neck with the Bundesliga in the Uefa coefficient this year? Also they had a team in the Champions League final. Yes for the teams playing in Europe that create that coefficient. The difference being that the strength of the rest of the PL ie clubs not in Europe is far greater than the rest of the German league teams not in Europe. So coefficient isn’t best determining factor of the quality of all the teams in those leagues, just those in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 27 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yes for the teams playing in Europe that create that coefficient. The difference being that the strength of the rest of the PL ie clubs not in Europe is far greater than the rest of the German league teams not in Europe. So coefficient isn’t best determining factor of the quality of all the teams in those leagues, just those in Europe. How are you judging this? I'm not saying you are wrong necessarily, but I doubt the difference is enough to suggest that a better than 1:1 strikerate is not a pretty good indicator of a pretty good striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 18 minutes ago, HKP90 said: How are you judging this? Watching them. Kane is a special striker but his goals in the German League are inflated comparable to the PL because of the overall strength of each leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 20 hours ago, nick76 said: Watching them. Kane is a special striker but his goals in the German League are inflated comparable to the PL because of the overall strength of each leagues. So if Kane played this season in the PL you think Ollie would have scored more than him? Seems a pointless argument to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 On 06/07/2024 at 08:59, HKP90 said: I think you are right, but just playing devil's advocate for a second, if we're going on who deserves to start based on how they did last year, Harry Kane scored 36 goals in 32 league appearances and 8 in 12 Cup games. And Harry Kane is our best striker… arguably the best in the world… Hes Englands record goalscorer - I think he has staked a very legitimate claim to start, regardless of his form in this tournament - the whole team is a bag of shite… I wouldn’t single out Kane for that… but if someone deserved a shot after him, it should be Ollie and not some chancer who sat out half the season because he was banned for doing something he wasn’t supposed to be doing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 27 minutes ago, DJ_Villain said: And Harry Kane is our best striker… arguably the best in the world… Hes Englands record goalscorer - I think he has staked a very legitimate claim to start, regardless of his form in this tournament - the whole team is a bag of shite… I wouldn’t single out Kane for that… but if someone deserved a shot after him, it should be Ollie and not some chancer who sat out half the season because he was banned for doing something he wasn’t supposed to be doing Agreed. We took the league's top assist winner, and he's had no time whatsoever, despite us struggling to create chances. Foden for Ollie part way through a game to play alongside Kane is an absolute no brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I'm not sure what people were expecting. Southgate doesnt rate Ollie and only plays him in games that dont matter and that will never change as long as he's in charge. I'm amazed he even got 20 mins against Denmark. Ollie was basically in the squad to play some part in the final group game had England won the first two games. Nothing more, nothing less. When he takes Kane off and brings on Toney in a like for like, despite Ollie playing as a lone striker for his club, then you know he's only there to make up the numbers. He was never going to play Ollie with Kane so swapping them was the only path to the field but if Toney is higher up the pecking order for even that then he may as well have a kip on the bench or watch from the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onmeedson Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Southgate is blinkered and ever see's carthorses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Southgate only took Ollie as he knew he'd get a backlash from the media. The fact he's scabbed his way to a Semi-Final has also managed to avoid any backlash about not playing Ollie. We know how good our striker is. I'd not swap him for Kane, Toney, anyone as he is perfect for how we play under Emery. Southgate is a far inferior manager to Emery and is reliant on the same few players bailing him out. As much as I'm pissed about his lack of minutes, I'd rather he was fresh and ready to rock n roll for us again next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 What's most frustrating is that if Ollie plays in place of Kane then we'd be able to press from the front, like pretty much every other forward thinking player in the squad do for their club teams. You can't play Kane and press high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I don't believe there's any vendetta against villa or Watkins. Toney came on last night because he's good at penalties. It's ashame Watkins isn't getting a run but he won't drop Kane. There's other English players like Gordon not getting a chance either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 30 minutes ago, R.Bear said: I'm not sure what people were expecting. Southgate doesnt rate Ollie and only plays him in games that dont matter and that will never change as long as he's in charge. I'm amazed he even got 20 mins against Denmark. Ollie was basically in the squad to play some part in the final group game had England won the first two games. Nothing more, nothing less. When he takes Kane off and brings on Toney in a like for like, despite Ollie playing as a lone striker for his club, then you know he's only there to make up the numbers. He was never going to play Ollie with Kane so swapping them was the only path to the field but if Toney is higher up the pecking order for even that then he may as well have a kip on the bench or watch from the stands. I think you're right bout Watkins but wrong about Toney He's only there for penalties Look at us in this tournament and the refusal to drop a really really poor kane, he doesn't trust Toney to start either, I genuinely don't know how much worse Kane has to get, he's been awful and yet in terms of the 90 minutes he's finished 5 games (?) Ollie got 20 mins, Toney in 90 mins has 2 minutes, it's a joke for both of them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 13 minutes ago, PaulC said: I don't believe there's any vendetta against villa or Watkins. Toney came on last night because he's good at penalties. It's ashame Watkins isn't getting a run but he won't drop Kane. There's other English players like Gordon not getting a chance either. There's no specific vendetta. Southgate is just an arsehole and a seriously shit manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermon Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) Cant see Watkins getting any more mins, it's either Kane or Toney especially with penalties as an option Edited July 7 by supermon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: So if Kane played this season in the PL you think Ollie would have scored more than him? Seems a pointless argument to me. Yes Kane would’ve more than likely scored more than Ollie but the original point was that if Kane is slightly injured/leggy/out of form then it’s not either a drop off or crazy to say Ollie should start instead of him last game especially as Ollie’s style suited that game better. The argument was that Kane scored all these goals in the German league so has to start and I didn’t necessarily agree given the standard of the German league below half a dozen of the teams and Kane not looking quite right. It is pointless as Kane will always start under Southgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 32 minutes ago, est1874 said: There's no specific vendetta. Southgate is just an arsehole and a seriously shit manager. Strangely, my friends who I watched the game with said "what did Villa do to Southgate to make him hate you so much" and they all mentioned how Southgate makes it as hard as possible to pick and play our players. So it's not just us who notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 15 minutes ago, Dodgyknees said: Strangely, my friends who I watched the game with said "what did Villa do to Southgate to make him hate you so much" and they all mentioned how Southgate makes it as hard as possible to pick and play our players. So it's not just us who notice. He did start Watkins against Brazil and I forget the other country and he didn't really impress. I love Watkins but think Southgate is loyal to certain players and to get into the England team he'd have to have a Platt moment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, HKP90 said: Agreed. We took the league's top assist winner, and he's had no time whatsoever, despite us struggling to create chances. Foden for Ollie part way through a game to play alongside Kane is an absolute no brainer for me. Not just that… wasnt he the player with the most goal contributions last season? Literally proven he can put the ball in the net AND help others do it… and he’s sat on the bench for some bloke who can’t stop gambling even though he is contractually obliged not to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Dodgyknees said: Strangely, my friends who I watched the game with said "what did Villa do to Southgate to make him hate you so much" and they all mentioned how Southgate makes it as hard as possible to pick and play our players. So it's not just us who notice. He didn't have to call up Konsa or give starts to Mings a couple of years back. The narrative that he has a vendetta against Villa is laughable tbh. I do think he has an issue with Grealish though or just isn't a fan of his personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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