Ollie Watkins

[OutByEaster?]

9 hours ago, Tom13 said:

But the point is - when he does realise it's a free man - the effort to get out there is poor.

Yeah, that's true, once he see's the danger, he doesn't do a great job of getting out there and doing anything about it, he can be quicker and take up a better body position. I'm just making the point that whilst he's done a poor job, someone else hasn't done their job at all. Someone is supposed to go out there with the player and make it impossible for him to take the ball from the corner and turn.

 

 

[The_Steve]

That disgusting lack of effort to close the attacker down would face a lot more criticism if certain other players had done it. Ollie shouldn’t be immune from his part in the defeat. And yes, Olsen needs to save it.

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Yeah, that's true, once he see's the danger, he doesn't do a great job of getting out there and doing anything about it, he can be quicker and take up a better body position. I'm just making the point that whilst he's done a poor job, someone else hasn't done their job at all. Someone is supposed to go out there with the player and make it impossible for him to take the ball from the corner and turn.

 

 

I think the team being down a man didn't realise how to adapt to the corner in that moment and we didn't have Mings or Martinez there to sort it out. If either of them were on the pitch the goal isn't scored.

[The_Steve]

20 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think the team being down a man didn't realise how to adapt to the corner in that moment and we didn't have Mings or Martinez there to sort it out. If either of them were on the pitch the goal isn't scored.

I agree with that, we lacked any leaders on the pitch at the back. However, they clearly setup for a short corner and anticipating the cross. So Ollie’s lack of effort invites the shot. 

[joshharris12]

Garbage 

[Mark_1989]

Really hope Everton or another relegation chasing club get desperate and throw money at us for this guy.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, Mark_1989 said:

Really hope Everton or another relegation chasing club get desperate and throw money at us for this guy.

Nobody is going to give us enough to make it worth while to sell him.  Everybody knows he’s not a finisher so those looking for a striker won’t value him at the levels we’d want to part with him.

[Hobsons Choice]

I don't think Ollie is a bad player at all, but some of the things that most people will agree are his weaknesses, notably finishing  are the principal attributes you need in a Striker.

Edited January 11, 2023 by HKP90

[bobzy]

On 08/01/2023 at 21:14, The_Steve said:

The lack of effort is staggering. I'd be happy if he didn't play for awhile.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 07:32, The_Steve said:

It’s the lack of pace, it’s his desire to faintly stick out a leg knowing he won’t get anywhere near it. It’s a short corner and he needs to do better. Ollie needs to take some blame here. 

 

Looking at the gif, he seems to be moving to block a shot going to the far corner (which makes sense given the positioning etc) - he doesn't run directly at the player at all.

Let's face it, the goalkeeper should easily be able to cover the near post there.

[rodders0223]

.It's a run lacking intensity but it's basically a standard run where you show him the near post because only an absolute cabbage would get beaten there . Some goalkeepers will say show him that post and don't stick out a floppy leg, I'll deal with it.

Except the cabbage in goal is a cabbage.

[HeyAnty]

About 2 years ago I thought he was going to be world class.  I think i got this very wrong  

[calcifer]

Ok lets take Ings goal Vs Wolves, would you in all honest see Watkins bury that? Watkins hits the keeper 9 times out of 10 with 1 on 1's - if we were 1-0 down and that was the last chance of the game you know where the ball would end up. 

 

His work rate is second to none, yes he can have 50p feet, sometimes his footballing intelligence is questionable with some decisions. But he will run all game. 

 

 

[nick76]

20 minutes ago, calcifer said:

Ok lets take Ings goal Vs Wolves, would you in all honest see Watkins bury that? Watkins hits the keeper 9 times out of 10 with 1 on 1's - if we were 1-0 down and that was the last chance of the game you know where the ball would end up. 

 

His work rate is second to none, yes he can have 50p feet, sometimes his footballing intelligence is questionable with some decisions. But he will run all game. 

 

 

Running all game doesn’t win you games.  He’s a great option to have with pressing, work rate and exhausting opposition defences but we still need to score.  Sometimes you need balance that you don’t have 100% of those attributes but you have 70-80% of those attributes but can score those chances….that’s Ings.

[bobzy]

39 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Running all game doesn’t win you games.  He’s a great option to have with pressing, work rate and exhausting opposition defences but we still need to score.  Sometimes you need balance that you don’t have 100% of those attributes but you have 70-80% of those attributes but can score those chances….that’s Ings.

It's a fine balancing act.  Watkins does far more up top for us than Ings does.  We don't beat Spurs with Ings, we do with Watkins.

[Rightdm00]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

 

 

Looking at the gif, he seems to be moving to block a shot going to the far corner (which makes sense given the positioning etc) - he doesn't run directly at the player at all.

Let's face it, the goalkeeper should easily be able to cover the near post there.

Just want to echo this statement. He closed down the far post on the assumption a PL keeper wouldn't get beat near post. Also, he is in the box. If he had attempted to close down at full speed he probably clatters into the man giving away another penalty. 

[DJBOB]

3 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

.It's a run lacking intensity but it's basically a standard run where you show him the near post because only an absolute cabbage would get beaten there . Some goalkeepers will say show him that post and don't stick out a floppy leg, I'll deal with it.

Except the cabbage in goal is a cabbage.

I think everyone's in a huff over the result of the play but Ollie did the right thing here especially as he possibly had to engage a 2v1 with the other Stevenage player set up for a dangerous pass and cut back. He shaped to cut off the far post as well as any passes that way and allowed Olsen to have a pretty clear sighted look at the near post which should have been easily covered. Even Olsen's positioning is wrong as he is way off the near post and the Stevenage player isn't going to be able to drill a cross with any pace.

Shambles all around but Olsen takes almost 95% of the blame here just on poor positioning.

Keeping 101 - where's the danger. Certainly not near the middle of the goal!

Edited January 11, 2023 by DJBOB

[villa89]

2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

About 2 years ago I thought he was going to be world class.  I think i got this very wrong  

To be world class you need a first touch and he will never have one.

[nick76]

44 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It's a fine balancing act.  Watkins does far more up top for us than Ings does.  We don't beat Spurs with Ings, we do with Watkins.

Sort of agree but sort of don’t.  Against Wolves we would’ve lost without Ings.  Against Spurs, Ings may have got in a position to score at some point which Watkins doesn’t.  Yes Watkins created havoc which created a goal but does that mean Ings through a slightly way doesn’t create or score if he had been playing…who knows.  

Ollie did the job against Spurs and Ings did the job against Wolves.  It’s hard to rely on Ollie though because we need to have others scoring which fortunately we have at the moment under Emery.  

My concern is until we get new players, the players we have supporting Ollie aren’t really scorers naturally from Buendia, Coutinho, Luiz, Kamara, McGinn.  So we are relying (outside of Ings) for historically regular scorers of Bailey who hasn’t really done it for us and JJ.  

It was ok for Firmino with Salah and Mane scoring the goals but for us because we don’t have regular other scorers you need more than just the workrate and pressing that Ollie does, you need goals.  

Ollie only works if goals come from elsewhere…it is at the moment but we need it to continue…it’s a big if with the current squad of players, that’s my only concern with Ollie.  I’d much prefer Ollie playing off a really striker than Ollie being the main striker.

[bobzy]

25 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Sort of agree but sort of don’t.  Against Wolves we would’ve lost without Ings.  Against Spurs, Ings may have got in a position to score at some point which Watkins doesn’t.  Yes Watkins created havoc which created a goal but does that mean Ings through a slightly way doesn’t create or score if he had been playing…who knows.  

There's a bias in here.  "Ings may have got in a position" - I mean, what?

We might have scored against Wolves with Watkins on the pitch.  The biggest change in that game was bringing Dendoncker into the middle of the pitch.  Maybe we would have scored anyway - who knows.

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, bobzy said:

There's a bias in here.  "Ings may have got in a position" - I mean, what?

We might have scored against Wolves with Watkins on the pitch.  The biggest change in that game was bringing Dendoncker into the middle of the pitch.  Maybe we would have scored anyway - who knows.

Because Ings gets into positions to score, also like he did for Bailey who went on to fluff the shot he creates chances.  Only created a chance against Spurs.  You’re assuming because Ollie had a great game against Spurs that Ings couldn’t have had in a different way just like you are pointing out to me about Ings.

You said Ollie does more up top. Yes he runs around a lot more but Ings is as effective up too but in a different way, he scored and creates a guilt edge chance against Wolves just has Ollie set up Buendia against Spurs.  Ollie running around more up top doesn’t always equate to doing more effectively things up front than Ings.  They both have their skill sets.