Ollie Watkins

[Tom13]

32 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Because he doesn't waste all of them and because he offers so much more than just goals but your average football fan won't notice that but managers will. 

Unai is gonna love Ollie whether fans likes it or not. 

Personally I think he'll eventually lose patience with him.

[Pinebro]

Just now, Tom13 said:

Personally I think he'll eventually lose patience with him.

Ollie is my favorite villa player and I sincerely hope you are wrong. 

[Tomaszk]

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

[duke313]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

I think he is just "ok", and that's the problem.

[Tom13]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

No certainly not. Just frustrating that he has as many negatives as positives.

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

Agreed.  Most fans I know think he's complete shit - which, of course, he isn't.

[pete101]

Think the frustration with him is that he clearly has gone backwards and what's more concerning is that he seems like a good guy that works hard on his game but still is not pushing on. 

I've always backed him on here because of his workrate but as players around him are starting to get better he looks more out of place. Was two or three moments in game yesterday where you could see the body language in Buendia and Bailey as if to say what is he doing in this team.

Hopefully he scores a bag load against Liverpool and makes all this seem like waffle.

[romavillan]

The last time we had a side that attacked well and made lots of chances he got 15+ goals. I'd expect him to match those kinds of numbers with Emery's team.

[Tom13]

3 minutes ago, pete101 said:

you could see the body language in Buendia and Bailey as if to say what is he doing in this team.

That's the main issue for me. It's hard to build moves when he's involved in them, as he just lacks the IQ and technique.

[duke313]

1 hour ago, allani said:

I know what you are saying but if we are genuinely aiming to try and finish in the Top 8 and ultimately challenge the Top 6 we just don't score enough goals.  Most of the teams in the top 8 last season scored 10 goals more than us last season - the Top 4 scored 20 or 30 more goals, the top 2 more than 40 more goals.  Clearly, one player isn't going to bridge that gap.  As per my post above you can accept a striker who doesn't score quite as many if they are getting loads of assists - but Ollie's assist record is atrocious.  The question is whether if we play better you (not you personally) think Ollie will score more and help us bridge that goal scoring gap or whether Ollie is one of the reasons why our goals for record is not very impressive.

I think it is somewhere between the two.  I think we desperately need a new attacker (whether that be a striker, wide attacker, whatever) who will score more goals and who is also better at linking up with others and getting more assists - whilst there will be times when the strengths that Ollie does have will suit particular games / situations.  He may also benefit from being under less pressure to score and suddenly rediscover his scoring boots.  

The fact that we are constantly linked with strikers, even if they don't amount to anything tells me that we are after a striker as a number one priority.  Oliie certainly won't help his cause by missing so many chances.

[abdulaziz1]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

As @duke313 say, the issue is that he’s ok. Ings is better than (Ok) for sure. Archer atleast has the potential of being more than ok, and he deserves a chance. 
 

What most of us are saying is the he shouldn’t be starting week in week out. Especially games where we expect to have more of the ball. Against the likes of Liverpool yes we should start him. 

[birdman]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

As frustrating as he is...he's criminally underrated amongst Villa fans.

There aren't many that think he's "ok", he's either a decent PL striker or awful. He isn't awful.

Nothing wrong with Ollie but we do need someone to score goals. We need another striker option it's clear as day.

[DJBOB]

The problem is doubled in that, as a side so far, we do not create a lot of chances. We've played well under UE, but even then, it's not like we're inflating our xG or creating a lot of clear cut chances.

Ollie has a lot of strengths but unfortunately finishing isn't one of them. Bad for a striker, but we've seen over several different managers that Ollie retains his place because of his work rate.

We'd get a lot more turn from him if we could generate more chances because, let's face it, if he added being clinical on top of his other attributes, he would be sold higher up.

[Tom13]

9 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

The problem is doubled in that, as a side so far, we do not create a lot of chances. We've played well under UE, but even then, it's not like we're inflating our xG or creating a lot of clear cut chances.

Ollie has a lot of strengths but unfortunately finishing isn't one of them. Bad for a striker, but we've seen over several different managers that Ollie retains his place because of his work rate.

We'd get a lot more turn from him if we could generate more chances because, let's face it, if he added being clinical on top of his other attributes, he would be sold higher up.

When he gets involved in build up play, he's a big part of the problem as to why chances aren't being created. He's on a different wavelength to everyone else.

[duke313]

18 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

The problem is doubled in that, as a side so far, we do not create a lot of chances. We've played well under UE, but even then, it's not like we're inflating our xG or creating a lot of clear cut chances.

Ollie has a lot of strengths but unfortunately finishing isn't one of them. Bad for a striker, but we've seen over several different managers that Ollie retains his place because of his work rate.

We'd get a lot more turn from him if we could generate more chances because, let's face it, if he added being clinical on top of his other attributes, he would be sold higher up.

This makes it even more of a priority that we sign a striker who can finish. 

If we don't create a lot, then we need someone who can put away the limited chances we create.

So, we either create more chances for Ollie, or sign someone who will put away the limited chances we do create.

Edited December 16, 2022 by duke313

[DJBOB]

6 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

When he gets involved in build up play, he's a big part of the problem as to why chances aren't being created. He's on a different wavelength to everyone else.

Sometimes yes, but I think that's overly blaming Watkins. Buendia mishits a lot of passes (and I rate Buendia). Bailey had that belter run and pass against United that Watkins fluffed but outside of that, has he made a lot of key passes? McGinn is McGinn. JJ can carry it but is he creating a lot of chances? Is Digne? Is Cash? Is Young? Is Luiz? Is Kamara?

Ollie can do better, but thinking we will just upgrade him and it will solve our problems doesn't examine the broader weaknesses in the squad - ie - we lack width and players that can beat a man dribbling.

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

This makes it even more of a priority that we sign a striker who can finish. 

If we don't create a lot, then we need someone who can put away the limited chances we create.

So, we either create more chances for Ollie, or sign someone who will put away the limited chances we do create.

Yes but that striker also has to link up play, bring down long balls, harass the back line and put in a shift as well.

I get it that Ollie's frustrating but replacing Ollie isn't going to magically solve our problems.

[Tom13]

Just now, DJBOB said:

Sometimes yes, but I think that's overly blaming Watkins. Buendia mishits a lot of passes (and I rate Buendia). Bailey had that belter run and pass against United that Watkins fluffed but outside of that, has he made a lot of key passes? McGinn is McGinn. JJ can carry it but is he creating a lot of chances? Is Digne? Is Cash? Is Young? Is Luiz? Is Kamara?

Ollie can do better, but thinking we will just upgrade him and it will solve our problems doesn't examine the broader weaknesses in the squad - ie - we lack width and players that can beat a man dribbling.

I'm not saying Ollie should be creating them, I'm saying it's hard to get into dangerous positions where a chance could be created (by anyone), as when he's involved in the build up (which he often is), our moves often break down.

[Tom13]

And when Ings plays with Buendia, Buendia is always finding him in dangerous areas. This doesn't happen anywhere near as much when it's Buendia and Watkins, because Watkins rarely spots dangerous runs to make.

[KentVillan]

People seem to be getting very worked up about his performance in training games.

His recent competitive games for Villa under Unai have been good.